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Trim controls for helicopters if FS2004
8 replies to this topic
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Posted 31 August 2008 - 10:03 PM
I guess I've been spoiled... the 206s I learned in were Navy trainers, and the version I flew the most was a fully-IFR certified bird with a Ministab stability system. With all the extra gadgets on board, we could take three people and 65 gallons of fuel and be right at 3,200 lbs. MGW.The SAS in the MH-60S is AMAZING. Imagine the body of a Blackhawk with the brains of an Airbus and you've got the MH-60S...I'll have to learn Robinsons someday so I can truly say "I can fly ANYTHING." I have a feeling that after a few hours in an R-22 or something I'd never complain about SAS-off landings in the '60 again!As for FS, I've been thinking about it more, and I bet it wouldn't be that hard to modify a simple joystick to have a magnetic brake system like a basic cyclic force trim... just need a power supply and a coupla solenoids...
Posted 31 August 2008 - 04:23 PM
The R44 Raven I and II does not have any trim at all. Let go of cyclic, get upside down real fast.The R22 has a very very basic cyclic trim - it's either on or off and is intended to relieve control pressure in cruise flight.I always thought that big red button in the 206 was a mic switch 8^) . I got to fly one for about 1/2 hour but apparently wasn't aware of the trim.There was a Dauphin model for FS2002 that modeled Force Trim Release, as well as what seemed to be a very authentic autopilot system. It was awesome, but the author never ported it to FS9 or FSX to make that stuff work.The Aerosoft Seahawk/Jayhawk models the SAS system. I have the FS9 version but it's been a long time since I flew it so I don't remember exactly how it works.http://www.aerosoft....68713780,D10568I may have to get that someday.Dave B.
Posted 31 August 2008 - 04:00 PM
Every real-world helicopter I've ever flown has trim, including the Bell 206. It's absolutely essential in a helicopter.It just works much, much differently. Trim in a helicopter doesn't move a separate aerodynamic surface like it does in an airplane. There's no way to put "trim tabs" on a helicopters control surfaces.Instead, in the Bell 206, for example, you have "force trim" which is a magnetic brake (like a solenoid) on each axis of the controls, used in conjunction with spring tension to adjust the "center" point of the controls. To disable the magnetic brake, you mash a button on the cyclic, then move it to the new desired "center" position, and release the button. Otherwise, you'd fly around all day with large amounts of force on the controls (forward cyclic, most of the time) and your arms would fall off after about half an hour.The bird I fly for a living now (MH-60S) has a combination of hydraulic and electric trim actuators, including collective and pedal trim.I would LOVE to see a way to simulate this in FS. A spring-tension/magnetic brake system would be easy enough to implement if you were building your own flight controls, and would be a hardware-only fix. It would be tricky to modify a ready-made joystick, but I suppose it could be done, maybe even with a purely mechanical system since the forces involved are so small. For a realistic fix, though, you need better hardware, not better software.
Posted 30 August 2008 - 04:50 AM
Many people look at helicopters as a funny looking airplane when they first encounter them in the sim world, expecting them to have somewhat the same behavior. A properly trimmed airplane on a calm day flies almost on autopilot. This isn't the case with a helicopter and if you come at it thinking it does the instability of the aircraft, where you have to constantly perform minute adjustments, will put a stop to the idea.When I hear people wanting to trim just any helicopter I tend to expect them to have just that misconception (of course, I might be completely off base with the reasoning, in which case I appologise for making the assumption).As for the weight distribution, I recalled having read something about that in conjunction with the heavy input issue you described, but there are of course other factors involved as well which might be more pertinent.I guess saying it's is a largely foreign concept is to overstate it a bit, since several of the more common models in use have it, but it still isn't an omnipresent feature like in the vast majority of airplanes.
Posted 29 August 2008 - 06:41 PM
>Trimming is largely a foreign concept in helicopters since>they are inherently unstable making it a moot issue. There are>certain models where it is available for various practical>reasons (usually to do with the weight distribution), but>neither the Robinsons nor the Bell 206 has it.Huh? Their "inherent instability" has nothing to do with whether they have trim or not. I also don't understand the association with weight distribution. I'd like to see your source(s) of info about those things, or did you just make that up?Just because these two helos in particular don't have trim doesn't mean by any means that it doesn't exist. The original R44 Astro had it, the Schweizer 269/300 (all variants) have it, and the MD500/OH-6 models have it. (I'm sure there are others but those are the ones I'm familiar with.) In the latter case, you almost have to use trim all the time to fly the aircraft, or else have a lot of heavy control pressures most of the time.Dave B.
Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:25 PM
Trimming is largely a foreign concept in helicopters since they are inherently unstable making it a moot issue. There are certain models where it is available for various practical reasons (usually to do with the weight distribution), but neither the Robinsons nor the Bell 206 has it.
Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:44 AM
The only way I know of to get trim for the helicopters is to purchase the full version of Pete Dowson's wonderful "FSUIPC" utility. This is only one of many many things that the utility can do.More info here: http://secure.simmar...products_id=538"FSUIPC4" is for FS-X, and is a separate product.N.B. that I am more familiar with version 4, but I am pretty sure that v3 has the helicopter trim feature too.good luck,Dave B.
Posted 15 August 2008 - 03:31 PM
I'm wondering if it is possible to use the trim controls for helicopters in FS2004. I have a full cyclic/collective setup and it would be great to run the trim function from the hat on my collective. Anyone know if this is possible? I know there are pitch and roll trim contols but I can't seem to get them to work with the helo.ThanksMark