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FSX freeze when using the FMC


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34 replies to this topic

#1 mvwissen

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 07:39 AM

I am posting a new topic, in the hope to draw PMDG's attention to this problem. Dan, I hope, I can give you some more details on the FMC problem, that causes FSX to freeze when changing an approach in the FMC. So, here is what I responded in threadhttp://forums1.avsim...p;hl=freeze FMCHi Dan, hi all,Unfortunately, I am experiencing the same problem as described in this thread. Dan, as I don't know what information you are really looking for, here is a summary of what I have done.1. I have planned a flight from YMML to NTAA using the following route YMML DOSEL7 Y59 SY G595 TAF NTAA with NCRG as an alternate. I copy/pasted this string to FSBuild or FSCommander, which results in slightly different .rte files, but both have the same effect.2. I started a new flight from scratch, placing the MD-11 in YMML on rwy 34 and I waited for the initialization to complete.3. Than I opened the FMC and loaded the route entering YMMLNTAA. The route was loaded successfully using either of the flight plans (FSBuild or FSCommander). Now, the interesting stuff starts. I am going to describe two different scenarios, one where the FSX crashes and one, where FSX doesn't crash.Scenario 1 (NOT successful)***********************4. I do a complete initialization on the INIT page (thus, entering NCRG in ALTN, 80 in CI, 310 in CRZ). Nothing else. I than switch to the F-PLN page and scroll all the way down to where I can select RWY04 (when using the FSBuild flight plan) or NTAA (when using the FSCommander flight plan). As mentioned before, there is no difference in either of the waypoints (RWY04 nor NTAA). Selecting this waypoint will enable me to select a STAR and I will change that to a VORD22 approach, using a 3000 MIN PROF and the PONU2M arrival. Upon inserting this STAR, FSX freezes. Screen frozen, sound still available. The only thing to stop this is to kill the fsx.exe process.Scenario 2 (successful)*******************5. And now the successful case. I do exactly the same as described above! The only difference is that I only load the route as described in step 3 but I don't initialize the INIT page as described in step 4. So the only thing that I have done on the INIT page is loading the route. Than I switch to the F-PLN page as described in step 4 and do everything the same way as described there. IT WORKS! I can successfully program the approach to use the VORD22 approach!Now, some additional details. I can always successfully program any approach to rwy04. No matter whether I initialize the INIT page or not. I can successfully program any approach on other airports. At this current stage. I have experienced otherwise though. Currently I am able to reproduce both scenarios at request, so everytime I am doing this, I can reproduce the successful and the unsuccesful case!Here is my current configuration.Windows Vista SP1 64bitFSX SP2PMDG MD-11 using the latest service packsAIRAC 0903FSBuild 2.3.7.5.1FSCommander 8.4.2Orbx scenery for YMML (although I don't think that this matters)Aerosoft scenery for NTAA (although I don't think that this matters)I have playing around for more than 4 hours now on this problem but I haven't found any other clues yet other than I know how to reproduce. If you need more information, I would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. Maybe I could install some sort of debugging program that would give you more information. I can also say that a colleague of mine has experienced this on other airports but the results are always the same. As soon as you start changing anything on the approach, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.I hope, I could give you some more details and I would be very happy to hear any comments from your side! Thanks for your help!Kind regards,MarkAn additional note. I have tried the scenario as described previously in this thread, by loading a default aircraft and than the MD-11 again. This had no effect. The results were the same as described in my last post. It doesn't matter either, if you are loading the 'default' PMDG MD-11 or a custom painted MD-11. So, if I had to answer your question regarding loading the KLM MD-11, my answer would be, 'yes, I could load any other PMDG MD-11, but the result would be the same'. If you know, what I mean ;-).Regards,Mark

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#2 Leffe

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 12:45 PM

Mark!This is not intend to be an complete answer to your probs, but I must say this (maybe it could help):1. Default ac = Cessna2. You ought to change to SP2. I think otherwise the FS exe file isn
Leif A Mikkelsen
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#3 mvwissen

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 01:18 PM

Hi Leffe,Thanks for your suggestions. Here my thoughts to your thoughts ;-).[quote name='Leffe' post='1559030' date='Mar 22 2009, 06:45 PM']Mark!This is not intend to be an complete answer to your probs, but I must say this (maybe it could help):1. Default ac = CessnaWhat do you mean with that? I don't get the point to this statement.2. You ought to change to SP2. I think otherwise the FS exe file isn

#4 Leffe

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 01:32 PM

Hi Leffe,Thanks for your suggestions. Here my thoughts to your thoughts ;-).Kind regards,Mark

Hi Mark!I was trying to see if I could help you with some some idea, about the behavior of frozen FS.I got the impression when you wrote about "Default" that you meant the default livery of MD11.... SORRY! ( I meant start FS with a Cessna, change then to your ac)Since the FS application is an 32- bit system, the FS exe file has to be hi-mem, so it can handle more than 2GB of memory. I think SP2 makes that for Vista 64 (Guess you have 4GB)The driver you
Leif A Mikkelsen
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#5 mvwissen

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 01:48 PM

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate any hint. Switching to the Cessna and than back to the MD-11 has already been done. No success though! Now, regarding the 2GB switch. I was under the impression that FSX SP2 took care about this problem. I also installed a litte piece of software where I was able to check if that switch was really set. I can't recall that option name within fsx.exe anymore but it said that fsx.exe would support more than 2GB (after installing FSX SP2). I have 8GB of memory, so this shouldn't really be an issue. Since I got rid of Bit Defender 2009, all my memory issues were resolved. No OOM's anymore ;-)!Mark[quote name='Leffe' post='1559054' date='Mar 22 2009, 07:32 PM']Hi Mark!I was trying to see if I could help you with some some idea, about the behavior of frozen FS.I got the impression when you wrote about "Default" that you meant the default livery of MD11.... SORRY! ( I meant start FS with a Cessna, change then to your ac)Since the FS application is an 32- bit system, the FS exe file has to be hi-mem, so it can handle more than 2GB of memory. I think SP2 makes that for Vista 64 (Guess you have 4GB)The driver you

#6 Leffe

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 02:19 PM

Yes SP2 should do that, I thought it was SP2 for VISTA, but I guess you are right. (Have XP-64 myself)Ok, I had some frozen FS application before, but only when i tried to reach the FS menu. That I finally got solved with a good driver however. (I dosen
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#7 Cuddly1956

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

Mark, I think I see the problem here.... It seems to be with the approach proceedure being wrong.The PONU2M appoach ends with the fix MOANA as it should but then the VOR.DME for 22 begins with MOANA as well without any intervening waypoint. The FMC is trying to fly from MOANA to MOANA and falls over. Also the MDA is usually put in the min profile box (560 in this case) though the guide says from 200 to 5000 agl.I loaded the same into the 747 fmc and can clearly see where it falls over.If you add 'HOLD AT FIX MOANA RIGHT TURN INBOUND COURSE 223 ALT 3000 LEGDIST 5' at the beginning of approach vor22 it shouldn't crash.Seems the same at 04 too. - throws up a disco but for some reason, able to alter!!!!!There is another one for the VOR approach but I'm lost on how to write that one lolIt's 15Nm from TAF turn left to 358 then a right turn to 178 then turning to 223 inbound to TAF.Charts here : https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/Hope a small help - and perhaps a moan on the Navigraph forum lolAfraid the MD doesn't seem to check for badly written fmc stuff... yet?John Ellison
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#8 emm

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 04:33 AM

Hi folksExactly the same behavior here. As soon as I'm inserting VORD22 arr (min prof 560) at NTAA the FS freezes.But, there is no problem to insert VORD04 arr at NTAA. :( I experienced a similar behavior at KATL using an older nav cycle. From my point of view it looks like a problem with some nav data inconsistencies...This behavior is very annoying. There is always a risk that the FS crashes during STAR FMC manipulations. Any chance to increase the robustness of the FMC when importing routes and star's? Any help from PMDG? :( Best regardsBruno

#9 downscc

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:49 AM

<<The PONU2M appoach ends with the fix MOANA as it should but then the VOR.DME for 22 begins with MOANA as well without any intervening waypoint. The FMC is trying to fly from MOANA to MOANA and falls over. Also the MDA is usually put in the min profile box (560 in this case) though the guide says from 200 to 5000 agl.>>All my STARs are written with the last fix in the arrival the same as the FAF in the approach, and the FMS makes the connection without any problem. The MIN PROF field is always a pilot-entry, either because the sidstar procedure does not include a MDA/MAP or because it emulates the real black box in this regard; I'm sure of the former and suspect the latter is true.Regardless, errors in the procedures shouldn't lock up the simulation; however, unlike the 737/747 the MD11 does not inlcude error messages. So what might happen is the MCDU will freeze due to an error but without an error message such as "ERROR AT FIX LINE 234" it justs gives you a blank look. I'm not expecting rewritten code for the FMS to resolve this, but if the error is locking up everything in the simulation and does not allow you to dump the bad procedure then that is a problem we ought to try to understand and resolve.Let me have a flight plan including arrival and approach that causes this behavior and I will see what I can do. I hope to have a few hours to play latter today. Thanks.

Dan Downs, Maj USAF (RET)

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#10 mvwissen

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 11:21 AM

Hi Dan,I will send you the flightplan (YMMLNTAA.rte) and the SID/STAR (NTAA.txt) file that I am currently using, in no later than two hours from now. Would those two files be enough for you to reproduce or do you need any other files?Regards,Mark

#11 mvwissen

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 12:07 PM

Hi Dan,Here are the files mentioned in the previous thread. I hope that they are enough to reproduce the error on your side. Otherwise, let me know. Of course, you need to rename the YMMLNTAA.txt file to .rte. I was not able to upload it with the .rte extension.Thanks for your help!Kind regards,Mark

#12 Cuddly1956

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:22 PM

Dan, you've forgotten more than I know about this stuff lol.But take the time to load it into the 747 fmc and an unclearable disco will be there, you'll see what I mean. Just trying to add some ideas here :( Just seems very odd to me that part of the approach is missing from the proceedure file.John Ellison
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#13 downscc

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 02:59 PM

Hi Dan,I will send you the flightplan (YMMLNTAA.rte) and the SID/STAR (NTAA.txt) file that I am currently using, in no later than two hours from now. Would those two files be enough for you to reproduce or do you need any other files?Regards,Mark

Actually, I have current sidstars and I prefer to manually enter the flight plan instead of using the generated flight plan file... sorry, I should have specified that before. Let me have your YMML-NTAA route and the departures/arrivals/approach you select. Thanks.

Dan, you've forgotten more than I know about this stuff lol.But take the time to load it into the 747 fmc and an unclearable disco will be there, you'll see what I mean. Just trying to add some ideas here http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_emot... Just seems very odd to me that part of the approach is missing from the proceedure file.John Ellison

John, at my age I have forgotten more than most others around here. Any unclearable disconnect needs to be looked at on PLN view, where they usually are pretty clear (fixes in opposite directions to route and that kind of thing).

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#14 mvwissen

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:46 PM

OK. Here we go with the route.HOPLA DOSEL7BEATO DOSEL7RIDAL DOSEL7DOSEL DOSEL7EBONY Y59 ARRAN Y59 NONUP Y59 CULIN Y59 TARAL Y59 RIVET Y59 SY 112.10 Y59 DIPSO G595GOVER G595ALLOC G595VARLY G595WARTY G595DONNA G595SARAP G595IGLET G595MUGEN G595NISET G595MALNI G595NIMOD G595ODUTI G595PAVSI G595 RAXER G595 SABUB G595 TAF G595 NTAA DCT I was going to use the VORD22.PONU2M approach.Mark

#15 downscc

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 04:44 PM

You made it difficult but here is what is happening: First of all your flight plan is YMML DOSEL7 DOSEL Y59 SY G595 TAF NTAA, you don't enter all the fixes along an airway because designating the airway does that automatically. The problem you are having is your teminus for G595 is TAF, which is almost on top of the airfield at NTAA. If you want to use the PONU2M arrival I suggest you take the G595 airway as far as SABUB then direct PONUI thence PONU2M arrival.This flight plan is so short (fix-airway-fix-airway-fix) there's no reason why you shouldn't enter it directly (I always do no matter how long, I use FSBuild it is only for ASX), try YMML DOSEL7 DOSEL Y59 SY G595 SABUB PONUI PONU2M.VORD22; that should work. Since you are landing opposite direction, your arrival has a standard teardrop turn to reverse course after overflying airfield and these are usually not shown on the Navigraph arrivals... but if you have the approach chart you should be using that as primary navigation and FMS secondary.Always review your path in the PLN mode on the ND... I believe preflight includes a some time for studying and understanding your route. OBTW: I did test this in the MD11, no problem.

Dan Downs, Maj USAF (RET)

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