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Windows 7 & CH Products Yoke problem.


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14 replies to this topic

#1 TJC

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 05:06 AM

Hello everyone.I've just finished my install of Windows 7 and almost everything is working the same as it was on Vista.My biggest problem is with the CH Product's Flight Sim Yoke.It is showing on the control panel as installed and will calibrate with no issues.But when I go to FS9 or FS-X, it won't show no matter what I've tried so far.Has anyone seen or heard of this problem?Any help or advice gratefully taken.
Regards.

Tom Cunningham.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
8GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3
GeForce GTX280 1024MB
1x 300GB VelociRaptor HD
1x 1000GB Serial ATA II HD

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#2 TJC

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 06:23 PM

Further update here.Still no clearer on the CH Products Yoke problem.But I'm hitting another problem now.Every time I start FS, it works for about 10 mins and then crashes with this God awful sound, it seems as if the last sound that plays is stuck in the sound controller forever.After I restart the computer, I check for any issues, but whatever is causing this crash is not showing up as a problem in the Control Centre.Does anyone know of a program I can install that will record the last known problem on the computer in case it crashes, and will keep that data for the next time it crashes?I've tried anything I know of so far to no avail.
Regards.

Tom Cunningham.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
8GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3
GeForce GTX280 1024MB
1x 300GB VelociRaptor HD
1x 1000GB Serial ATA II HD

#3 Erv Moore

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 08:53 PM

Tom, I'm having the same issue with CH Products both yoke and pedals. The device manager shows both operating O.K. Also did a cal check with CH Products program which checked good showing that both are working correctly. I even deleted my FSX config file with new one generated by FSX but that did not help.All other functions of FSX seem to work OK. Hope we can fix this issue soon. Good luck.erv

Intel I7 4770K @ 4.70, GAZ87X MB, Samsung SSDs, 16 GB Crucial Memory, GA GeForce GTX760@ up 14.29%, Win 7 64, Cooler Master water cooler & 850W PS.


#4 Bob Church

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:03 PM

Hi Tom,In answer to your first question, it should have generated a BSOD if it crashed Windows. It goes by too fast before it restarts, but there's a setting you can make that will hold at the BSOD screen and the inforamation and addresses it displays can be helpful if you're the author of the offending program. It will also do a memory dump at the same time. It used to be in Memory.dmp in the Windows folder, I don't know where it is in Win7.In the second post, you mention the "Control Centre". Are you using the Control Manager or just Windows? If you are, then I'd like to see what the BSOD says and which version of the CM you're using (doesn't matter whether you're using a map or not, only whether or not the CM is installed) and perhaps I can track it down for you.Finally, there's a bug apparently in FSX and the 64-bit versions of both Vista and Win7. If you try to calibrate from the desktop, it will bring up the CM Calibration Applet and not the Windows Applet, but if you try to calibrate from within FSX, it will bring up the standard Windows applet. If you've calibrated there then lots of problems can ensue. What you need to do is to go into FSX and start calibration via the Windows standard applet. Early on, you'll be given the option to "Reset Defaults". Do that, and then exit as gracefully as you can without actually calibrating. Once you've done that, close FSX and calibrate it from the Desktop. It should never be calibrated from within the Windows applet.Other than that, I don't know. How have you got the yoke connected. There are known issues with the USB ports on some keyboards and wireless USB hubs, other than that it's been working fine as far as I know.If you don't have the CM installed, then I'd have to guess it's something in the USB system. There are too many yokes out there and too many copies of Win7 being used that it wouldn't have gone unnoticed on the boards. Somebody else would have seen it. Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

#5 Bob Church

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:14 PM

Hi erv,It looks like we cross-posted (or maybe not, I seem to be seeing different post times/orders. In any case, does any of what I said in my response to Tom help with the situation?Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

#6 Erv Moore

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:22 PM

Thanks Bob! Appears I have more homework to do. My CH Products have been working great with Vista 64. Not sure why they are not displayed in FSX, device manager shows devices working plus a cal check with CH software confirmed they are working properly.I did send a message to CH.Anyway, thanks for your input.erv

Intel I7 4770K @ 4.70, GAZ87X MB, Samsung SSDs, 16 GB Crucial Memory, GA GeForce GTX760@ up 14.29%, Win 7 64, Cooler Master water cooler & 850W PS.


#7 Erv Moore

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:43 PM

After reading Bobs posted I did the follow. Unplugged both controllers, removed CH Products software, restarted windows 7, plugged in controllers. FSX is back to normally meaning both controllers now show in FSX. Seems I had a software problem with CH Products.Thanks Bob. Hope you get your problem fix Tom.Good luck, erv

Intel I7 4770K @ 4.70, GAZ87X MB, Samsung SSDs, 16 GB Crucial Memory, GA GeForce GTX760@ up 14.29%, Win 7 64, Cooler Master water cooler & 850W PS.


#8 Bob Church

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:42 AM

Hi Erv,Glad to hear you're up and running again! A few questions if you'd be kind enough to answer....1. Am I right in assuming that you didn't have the GUI running, only the drivers, when this happened.2. Am I right in assuming you weren't using a map?3. Which version of the Control Manager were you using?4. How were you connecting to the PC. Through motherboard ports or through a hub or??I write the Control Manager, if there's a problem I'd like to get it fixed, and any info I can get is always helpful.Thanks!Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

#9 Erv Moore

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:17 AM

Hello Bob,I'll try to answer your questions. The Control Manager was downloaded fom CH about a month ago when I built the computer using Vista 64, got a free upgrade to Windows 7. I used the CH program to check calabration and used FSX for key assignments. Also, I enjoyed CH because it shows location and number for control functions, very handy. When I did a Windows 7 upgrade last evening (did not do a clean install), I lost CH Product yoke and pedals in FSX, ony thing showing was mouse functions or options. However, the device manager showed both controllers installed and operational.1. Am I right in assuming that you didn't have the GUI running, only the drivers, when this happened. Yes2. Am I right in assuming you weren't using a map? Correct3. Which version of the Control Manager were you using? Used latest on CH site, sorry don't remember number.4. How were you connecting to the PC. Through motherboard ports or through a hub or?? Connect direct to motherboard for both controllersAgain, thanks Bob for your input which drove me to do additional checks/procedures and for writing CH.Regards, erv

Intel I7 4770K @ 4.70, GAZ87X MB, Samsung SSDs, 16 GB Crucial Memory, GA GeForce GTX760@ up 14.29%, Win 7 64, Cooler Master water cooler & 850W PS.


#10 TJC

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 01:57 PM

Thanks for the replies guys, sorry I couldn't reply earlier, don't have the Avsim Forums at work as they won't load there due to our AntiVirus programs in place.Too outlandish to describe though, you probably wouldn't believe what we have to go through.I have the Yoke problem sorted out.Although I un-installed everything to do with CH Products, or so I thought, there was another CH Products Control centre file lurking where I didn't see it.Once I had that figured, I re-installed the file downloaded by the computer and I'm pleased to say it is now working again.

In answer to your first question, it should have generated a BSOD if it crashed Windows. It goes by too fast before it restarts, but there's a setting you can make that will hold at the BSOD screen and the inforamation and addresses it displays can be helpful if you're the author of the offending program. It will also do a memory dump at the same time. It used to be in Memory.dmp in the Windows folder, I don't know where it is in Win7.

What is happening is that I may be in FS or at some other program and the screen freezes, if I am in FS whatever sound is playing at the time also freezes at whatever point it was at.You can imagine this is fairly annoying if it happens to be a siren or other loud noise at the time.The only way to stop this is to re-start the computer from the re-start buttom beside the main power on switch.If I don't hit this button the noise and screen will stay frozen for a long time, never timed it as it was most often too loud to leave on.

In the second post, you mention the "Control Centre". Are you using the Control Manager or just Windows? If you are, then I'd like to see what the BSOD says and which version of the CM you're using (doesn't matter whether you're using a map or not, only whether or not the CM is installed) and perhaps I can track it down for you.

I should have typed that better, the control manager I mean is the Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Administrative Tools\Event manager
Regards.

Tom Cunningham.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
8GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3
GeForce GTX280 1024MB
1x 300GB VelociRaptor HD
1x 1000GB Serial ATA II HD

#11 Bob Church

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:51 PM

Hi Tom,That would cause it. If you look in the Device Manager under "System" and you see more than one instance of the the "CH Control Manager Software" or whatever it is I'm calling it these days, it CM has gotten installed on top of itself. The first one is in charge of the devices, the second one gets the drivers, and odd things happen.Sometimes it's a result of trying to erase the files, which doesn't clean the registry out. For an uninstall, you need to go to Add/Remove Programs pre-Vista, "Programs and Features" in Vista, I'm not sure what it is in Win 7 but someplace in the Control Panel there should be an entry.Another fellow reported that an uninstall/reinstall fixed a problem he was having. See my reply to Erv below.In any case, I'm very glad to hear you got things working and there's a reasonable explanation. I hate Windows "mysteries".Thanks for the feedback and happy flying!Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

#12 Bob Church

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 05:21 PM

Hi Erv,You're certainly welcome, and thank YOU very much for getting back to me with the info!About the only thing I can suggest you might try right now is a reinstall of the Control Manager, as Tom did. If you do it, it's best to plug the controllers in, check to see that they're basically operational in the Windows applet (don't calibrate though), and then restart Windows before you actually install the CM. That gives Windows a chance to pick things up in their normal startup enumeration order and they don't get lost after the first restart. You might also check for multiple instances of the Control Manager in the Devices Manager as Tom mentioned. It's virtually guaranteed to cause some very odd behavior.There have been a couple of reports in the last few weeks about a problem with Win 7 not maintaining the order of the controllers. That will cause FS (any version) to "Reset Defaults" and so you have to go back through reassignment to get things set up again. There was some speculation that it coincided with a Windows update, and this fellow had done an update install, not clean, but the problem was essentially that they had to reassign everything each time Windows ran which happens if Windows rearranges the controller order. They then appear as a "new" device and all versions of FS since FS95 have "Reset Defaults" on the controllers when this happens, something nobody much enjoys. It should stabilize after the first restart, but Windows may choose to rearrange things for a number of reasons. That can happen for several reasons - changing ports, adding or removing devices from the hub that's handling the CH controllers. If you've got FSUIPC (registered) one option is to simply take the assignments out of FS entirely and make them in FSUIPC. It's easier, the FS Assignments Dialog is a horror, and Pete provides all the functions (over 1100 last time I looked) where the MS dialog only lets you assign about 400 of them. Do check the Sensitivities and Null Zones in FS though. All the Null Zone sliders should be fully left, all the Sensitivity sliders should be fully right. If you have a Quad be sure and get all six, Windows seems to only show 3 at a time but there are some not-so-obvious scroll bars that will bring the rest into view.Anyway, the fellow had been running Vista with no problems, did an upgrade to Win7 and that was when the problem began. The fix was to uninstall and reinstall the Control Manager, which would make some sense since it's largely a matter of registry entries and whether or not Windows properly migrates the Vista registry to the Windows 7 registry and ends up with the same result is anyone's guess. Better to start with a clean slate and let Win7 create the registry entries itself.If you'd like to pursue it, what I would do is this. Your Win7 system is up and the controllers are stable now. Leave them plugged in, set a manual System Restore point, and then reinstall v4.51 (that's the one you've got if it's the latest). It may line things up again for you too. If not, you can uninstall the CM and run System Restore, it should bring you right back to where you are now.If you do decide to try it, I'd appreciate it if you could post back and let me know whether it fixes things up for you, I'd really like to figure out what's going on. All through the RCs, etc. Win 7 was stable as a rock, and up until this moving of devices on each reboot thing occurred, there had been no complaints. You may just be seeing that same problem.In either case, thank you for getting back to me and letting me know how you were set up. The information is always useful, sometimes it takes awhile to get all the pieces to fit together.Thanks again!Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

#13 TJC

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 12:58 PM

Many thanks for your help and advice Bob.
Regards.

Tom Cunningham.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
8GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3
GeForce GTX280 1024MB
1x 300GB VelociRaptor HD
1x 1000GB Serial ATA II HD

#14 Bob Church

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 02:39 PM

>> Many thanks for your help and advice Bob. <<You're welcome, Tom! I'm glad it was some help! One other note. In the CM calibration page, there's a tab at the top that lets you set deadzones and things for Direct Mode (no Map running). You can use the deadzone for the X and Y axes to adjust the point where the pedals start to activate the brakes, and the sensitivity too, if that's necessary.Even with the Windows drivers, they should be set there for starters. The problem usually occurs with the Windows drivers because the default sets the Null Zones somewhere to the right. That would normally increase Null Zone I think, but because the brakes are reversed it seems that you get maximum pre-travel if the Null Zone is fully left, and Sensitivity fully right just gives you maximum full braking. If I just don't calibrate them at all under Windows, clear the calibration if it's already there, and set the sliders as described, I have to go down about 30% before the brakes come on, pushing Null Zone to the right raises the activation point.It's really the best way, I think. Windows has never tried to calibrate center on the Rudder anyway, and the CH pedals typically swings full range. Windows will pick the midpoint, which is usually pretty close. The only way to improve that that I know of is to use the CM as you've done, it knows to calibrate center, or to use the registered version of FSUIPC to tweak the rudder center back into line., If you have any more trouble, you'll probably get a quicker response if you post on the forums over at the CH Hangar:http://www.ch-hangar.comI'm over there quite a bit, and there are several others that help out with CH-related problems.Anyway, I'm glad to hear it's up and running for you! Have fun!Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

#15 tkbear2

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 11:51 PM

Hi Tom,In answer to your first question, it should have generated a BSOD if it crashed Windows. It goes by too fast before it restarts, but there's a setting you can make that will hold at the BSOD screen and the inforamation and addresses it displays can be helpful if you're the author of the offending program. It will also do a memory dump at the same time. It used to be in Memory.dmp in the Windows folder, I don't know where it is in Win7.In the second post, you mention the "Control Centre". Are you using the Control Manager or just Windows? If you are, then I'd like to see what the BSOD says and which version of the CM you're using (doesn't matter whether you're using a map or not, only whether or not the CM is installed) and perhaps I can track it down for you.Finally, there's a bug apparently in FSX and the 64-bit versions of both Vista and Win7. If you try to calibrate from the desktop, it will bring up the CM Calibration Applet and not the Windows Applet, but if you try to calibrate from within FSX, it will bring up the standard Windows applet. If you've calibrated there then lots of problems can ensue. What you need to do is to go into FSX and start calibration via the Windows standard applet. Early on, you'll be given the option to "Reset Defaults". Do that, and then exit as gracefully as you can without actually calibrating. Once you've done that, close FSX and calibrate it from the Desktop. It should never be calibrated from within the Windows applet.Other than that, I don't know. How have you got the yoke connected. There are known issues with the USB ports on some keyboards and wireless USB hubs, other than that it's been working fine as far as I know.If you don't have the CM installed, then I'd have to guess it's something in the USB system. There are too many yokes out there and too many copies of Win7 being used that it wouldn't have gone unnoticed on the boards. Somebody else would have seen it. Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

I have the same problem as stated earller in the paragraph but I am having another problem too.every time i start fsx my ch yoke and pedals are unresponsive. I have to unplug both and plog them back in to get them to work. any suggestions





   
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