KSEA tree line across runway!

[scianoir 610]

OK guys - this line of trees and the odd looking control tower(?) has just appeared lying across r/w34R at KSEA (Fly Tampa scenery), since I last flew there about 2 weeks ago! I assume it is some other addon scenery causing this problem, but I am not quite sure where it has come from! Has anyone else had this problem or does anyone recognise the control tower (excluding the tree growing on the dome!)?Thanks in anticipation,Bill

[Captain Kevin 586]

That "control tower" actually looks more like an oversized taxiway edge light.

[scianoir 610]

That "control tower" actually looks more like an oversized taxiway edge light.

Thanks for the reply,Actually yes, I think you are right (which explains why it is blue and why I have not been able to find any tower looking like that in any recent addon!). But that makes the mystery even deeper!!Bill

[tinhead59 2]

Thanks for the reply,Actually yes, I think you are right (which explains why it is blue and why I have not been able to find any tower looking like that in any recent addon!). But that makes the mystery even deeper!!Bill

Just a thought. Why not try a restore from a few days ago? It might help you pinpoint the cause as something you have installed recently.....John

[John Hinson 22]

OK guys - this line of trees and the odd looking control tower(?) has just appeared lying across r/w34R at KSEA (Fly Tampa scenery), since I last flew there about 2 weeks ago! I assume it is some other addon scenery causing this problem, but I am not quite sure where it has come from! Has anyone else had this problem or does anyone recognise the control tower (excluding the tree growing on the dome!)?

I don't have this scenery but it is almost certainly another scenery causing this - it would seem you have two scenery objects using the same reference. Some other (rather smaller) object should appear at that location.As I understand it, when a scenery designer compiles a bgl file, a random identification number is generated. There is a small risk that two such bgls will generate the same number and only one of these will be used by FS. I have experienced similar problems three times - with Scottish, Greek and Finnish airports.The solution is for one of the airport designers to re-generate the file. In all cases this resolved the issue. I suggest you take it up at http://www.flytampa.org/forum/ . If you know what sceneries you have installed recently, you may be able to identify the one that clashes with it. Neither is right, neither is wrong, they just don't work together.John

[niyoko 7]

That is one BIG taxiway light, HAHAHA :( :( :( B) B) I needed that laugh, thank you. :)

[scianoir 610]

I don't have this scenery but it is almost certainly another scenery causing this - it would seem you have two scenery objects using the same reference. Some other (rather smaller) object should appear at that location.As I understand it, when a scenery designer compiles a bgl file, a random identification number is generated. There is a small risk that two such bgls will generate the same number and only one of these will be used by FS. I have experienced similar problems three times - with Scottish, Greek and Finnish airports.The solution is for one of the airport designers to re-generate the file. In all cases this resolved the issue. I suggest you take it up at http://www.flytampa.org/forum/ . If you know what sceneries you have installed recently, you may be able to identify the one that clashes with it. Neither is right, neither is wrong, they just don't work together.John

Thanks for the information and suggestions John. I will take it up in the Fly Tampa forum and see if they have any solutions but I think I will just have to go down the pathway of unistalling the sceneries I have installed since KSEA was ok and luckily there are not too many. Interestingly I had a similar problem with an odd structure in the same place in KSEA about a year ago which was due to an interraction with some Swedish airport scenery which I had added, so I was curious to learn how these things happen!Bill

That is one BIG taxiway light, HAHAHA :( I needed that laugh, thank you. :)

You're welcome!!! :( :( B)

[WarpD 824]

Actually... my first thought is copy protection.Add insanely bogus items if the licensing's not valid. If it was fine before... your licensing information may have gotten screwed up.Just a thought.

[scianoir 610]

Actually... my first thought is copy protection.Add insanely bogus items if the licensing's not valid. If it was fine before... your licensing information may have gotten screwed up.Just a thought.

Actually, just to clarify this, I have a valid license for KSEA which I purchased through SimMarket and the license has not been corrupted!However just to wrap this one up, in case anyone has a similar problem, I have identified the cause. I uninstalled all the scenery which I added since KSEA was last normal and the final scenery which I uninstalled (isn't that just typical!!) was the problem - the scenery in question was the New Mumbai freeware scenery (VABB) which contains a lot of tree and bush bgl files and also some taxilight bgl files although I am not sure which ones were responsible as I have not tried to reinstall it at this point.My thanks to all for the replies!Bill

[WarpD 824]

Oh... I didn't think you had an illegal copy. You'd stated it was working, and then one day suddenly it wasn't.I've seen licensing get screwed up like that.

[scianoir 610]

Oh... I didn't think you had an illegal copy. You'd stated it was working, and then one day suddenly it wasn't.I've seen licensing get screwed up like that.

OK thanks Ed - and thanks for the advice (all tips are always appreciated when one is faced with the mysteries that this hobby throws up from time to time!)Bill :(

[John Hinson 22]

I have done some research and it is possible to eliminate these objects without abandoning add-on sceneries of VABB Mumbai and VIDP Delhi which both place unwanted objects at KSEA.If you create an exclude file for "library objects" with the following co-ordinates:N47* 25.9844'N47* 26.0818'W122* 18.5169'W122* 18.3386'and place it in the Scenery Library at a level higher (i.e. loading afterwards) than VABB and VIDP then the unwanted objects will not be seen.Note also that another discussion identifies similar problems with ESNS and ESPA add-ons too ( http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=291516 ) but I'm not in a position to check whether this fix will solve that issue as I don't have them installed.John

[scianoir 610]

I have done some research and it is possible to eliminate these objects without abandoning add-on sceneries of VABB Mumbai and VIDP Delhi which both place unwanted objects at KSEA.If you create an exclude file for "library objects" with the following co-ordinates:N47* 25.9844'N47* 26.0818'W122* 18.5169'W122* 18.3386'and place it in the Scenery Library at a level higher (i.e. loading afterwards) than VABB and VIDP then the unwanted objects will not be seen.Note also that another discussion identifies similar problems with ESNS and ESPA add-ons too ( http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=291516 ) but I'm not in a position to check whether this fix will solve that issue as I don't have them installed.John

Thanks John - will try that. Incidentally I have also had the problem with ESNS in the past and solved that by getting rid of the Skelefftea freeware addon! Currently have a small nissen hut like object in the same place (at least it is on the grass!) which at least is not too intrusive - maybe it is from ESPA?!BillBill

[John Hinson 22]

Thanks John - will try that. Incidentally I have also had the problem with ESNS in the past and solved that by getting rid of the Skelefftea freeware addon! Currently have a small nissen hut like object in the same place (at least it is on the grass!) which at least is not too intrusive - maybe it is from ESPA?!Bill

It could be, Bill, but as I say I'm not in a position to check that.The fact that so many other sceneries seem to put strange objects into KSEA has caused me to rethink the theory I suggested earlier in this thread about scenery object IDs. It seems too much of a coincidence that four or more sceneries are affecting the same place. Couple this with the fact that the exclude file only works if it loads after the offending sceneries adds weight to the idea of a different scenario.What I am now thinking is that possibly the object placing software that these authors are using initially defaults to KSEA (FS2004 does so, I think?) and they click a button and accidentally save an object there before moving to the airport they are working on. This should show clearly in their XML code if they look at it, as the co-ordinates will be substantially different.I have already dropped a line to the author of the two India sceneries about the issue and it will be interesting to see his reply.John

[hjwalter 25]

Hi all,I don't have the airports all you guys are referring to but I have seen this kind of problem before at other FS9 airports and have managed to solve most of them, .......well sort of.This is the way I've understood how it works:With the more modern XML/MDL methods of making scenery, so called MDL (model) files are used and compiled into scenery BGL files. These MDL files are built up of 32 position hex GUIDS and have direct links to their related texture BMP files. There are three types of such .bgl files:1. For the positioning of the objects in the scenery.2. Those containing the MDL files themselves, the so called "library files", often having "lib" somewhere within their file names.3. Combinations of 1. and 2.All three types are normally stored within an airport's scenery folder.When FS9 starts up, active library files (2. and 3. above) are collected into the scenery cache ready for use but when one or more new guids are encountered which are already present in the cache, they are ignored. This results in the textures linked to the existing cache guids being positioned (via 1. or 3. above) in other sceneries, instead of the ignored ones, causing strange scenery displays, both in size, position and looks. E.g. the huge blue taxiway "tower" light and the trees (or oversized weeds).For me it's unclear exactly how the FS9 cache buildup process works but if a scenery did not have such display problems before then the first thing I always do is to de-activate all addon airport sceneries (via the FS9's scenery library), installed SINCE the "problem" airport. After that the display problem should disappear at the problem airport. I then re-activate those addon sceneries one by one untill the display problem re-appears. I now know which new scenery as a whole, is causing the problem and all de-activated sceneries may be re-activated again. Note: Because of the way FS9's scenery cache is built up, re-arranging scenery priorities will only cause comparable problems at other airpoprts while possibly solving the original airport's problem. Now it becomes a question of finding the offending BGL file itself within the (re-activated) scenery which is causing the problem at the original airport. I find it by deleting groups of .bgl files (into a clean refuse bin) until the display problem has disappeared and then by restoring single .bgl files back to their original positions (from the refuse bin), untill the problem re-appears. This last restored .bgl file is then the culprit and I rename it's extension to e.g. XXXX. All other remaining "innocent" .bgl files may now be restored.Yes, it's a tedious job, especially when FS9 itself (and the test flight) needs to be restarted to view results, every time when a .bgl file has been restored. The new scenery cache must be rebuilt from scratch in the new situation and the only way to do this is by re-starting FS9.I now go to the airport of which the .bgl file's extension has been changed to XXXX. Hopefully it's not a .bgl which causes too many objects to no longer display but if it does then deleting the whole airport could become an option. For me it's always a choice between where I like flying the most and sometimes it's a great pity to discard a new very well made airport about which some "high tech" developers are very proud and have gone through a great amount of work to make.O.K., some of you technical guys may have other solutions and comments are welcome but it's my opinion that the basic problem is a structural one caused by the way that FS9 builds up it's scenery cache and by ignoring duplicates, which I believe will be extremely difficult to correct, if not impossible.I have as yet, no experience with FSX as to this type of problem.Good luck.Hans