FS9 icing

[docbrown 0]

I recently decided to fly in the Alps, using X-Plane 9 (sorry, I don't mean to be a heretic). I downloaded real weather, and it was snowing quite a bit. I took off anyway, but after a while, my poor Piper Cherokee started to slow down and get really heavy... airframe icing! I went down in altitude, where the warmer air restored my normal flying capabilities.The experience was great fun. It reminded me of Lindbergh's flight across the Atlantic (watch "The Spirit of St. Louis" with Jimmy Stewart, or better, read the book).I was wondering if realistic icing can be simulated in FS9 using Active Sky 6.5 or Evolution. I know pitot icing is simulated, but what about airframe icing? It seems to be simulated using the REX weather engine, although I have not tried it. The manual states, "Enable Realistic Icing Effects - This option increases the effect of cloud icing on the airframe of the aircraft."So, does Active Sky (any version) simulate airframe icing? I would appreciate any comments on this. Thanks!

[flyinpilot212121 724]

I have heard people say thta it does but in my many years of using fs9 I have yet to see the effects of airframe icing. I have seen the pitot icing go on but thats about it on my end. I use activesky and have checked the icing option but still no avail on the airfranme icing, which is a pity that it is not simulated realisicaly as it is a very IMPORTANT thing that should be simulated, It is a big part of aviation.

[Chock 17,769]

What you'd probably have to do to simulate airframe icing, is take suitable variable information from all the relevant parameters that can be accessed from the simulator (i.e. the ones listed in the SDK) and then model your aircraft systems accordingly to play an effect when all the right boxes are ticked. If you went about that in the right way, then yes, you could simulate airframe icing.One or two weather add-ons over the years have had a stab at doing it too, but I remember contacting the developer of one of them some years ago, and he told me that he actually took the tailplane icing effect out of his software because users apparently didn't like it being in there, which I was disappointed to learn by the way (I'm having a bit of a brain fade moment right now and cannot remember the name of which exact weather utility that was, but I do remember it was one that worked for both FS9 and FSX, and I also remember that I lost the serial number for it too, so that doesn't help either!)Back to doing it with an aeroplane in FS, here's a possible scenario of how you could simulate airframe icing in FS: Access the temperature, humidity and altitude variable info from the simulator and monitor them with a gauge, then if all of them hit required parameters for icing (which typically would be, medium altitudes, passing through clouds with a high moisture content at low temperature). If all the boxes are ticked for your gauge that is monitoring those parameters, then you could have the aircraft model covertly deploy a flap reduction parameter to the flight model (even if it actually is not a genuine flap system the aircraft has and gives no indication to the user that this had occurred). Minus flap settings can definitely be modeled in FS, because it's been done with some glider models that feature negative flap settings like their real-world counterparts have for when doing high speed dashes through areas of sink. With a minus value applied to the lift of the flight model, and one that also adds a bit of drag as well, bingo, you've got a simulation of airframe icing (albeit a simplified one), which of course you could then remove by flying the aircraft into a situation where your gauge gets variable information that unticks its icing paramter boxes and removes its covertly applied lift and drag settings, making the aircraft fly normally again.Whether any developers would go to the trouble of actually doing all that is another matter of course, and to some extent it would be a bit of a 'canned effect' but there is certainly no reason why that could not be done (and the way I mention is not the only method for achieving it). So the answer is yes, you can simulate airframe icing in FS, and you could even do tailplane icing jams by having such efforts affect the tailplane in the flight model when the flaps get lowered, although it would take a bit of thought to get things working in a believable way.One of the problems with doing it though, is that to spend a lot of time modeling a beautifully accurate aeroplane in FS, and then throw in some canned effect that can make it fly like a brick, is probably not that appealing to the average user, especially when the default weather in FS would have to be the thing you'd rig it for, which is another issue, since the visuals for the clouds in FS do not relate exactly to where the temperatures are in FS, as it simply isn't that precise, especially when the graphics sliders are messed around with by the user.Another thing which makes it probably rarer than it is, is that the kind of high end add-on that might feature such a thing would typically be an airliner, but really, it's only turboprop airliners that get really badly affected by airframe icing (because of the fact that they operate more in the regime where airframe icing is likely), and there simply aren't that many high-end turboprop airliners around for FS. Jet airliners are more likely to be bothered by engine nacelle icing or possibly by water ingestion swamping the engines when passing through rain clouds, jets simply don't spend enough time in the conditions where airframe ice accretion is most likely to have it be that much of an issue. A high-end GA twin prop aircraft that could make it up to 20,000 feet on the other hand, would probably be worth having a stab at creating an airframe icing effect for, since many users of expensive GA add-ons for FS use them in addition to flying the real things, and they'd probably appreciate the realism of throwing such a risk in there.Al

[kiwiflyer45 123]

What you'd probably have to do to simulate airframe icing, is take suitable variable information from all the relevant parameters that can be accessed from the simulator (i.e. the ones listed in the SDK) and then model your aircraft systems accordingly to play an effect when all the right boxes are ticked. If you went about that in the right way, then yes, you could simulate airframe icing.One or two weather add-ons over the years have had a stab at doing it too, but I remember contacting the developer of one of them some years ago, and he told me that he actually took the tailplane icing effect out of his software because users apparently didn't like it being in there, which I was disappointed to learn by the way (I'm having a bit of a brain fade moment right now and cannot remember the name of which exact weather utility that was, but I do remember it was one that worked for both FS9 and FSX, and I also remember that I lost the serial number for it too, so that doesn't help either!)Back to doing it with an aeroplane in FS, here's a possible scenario of how you could simulate airframe icing in FS: Access the temperature, humidity and altitude variable info from the simulator and monitor them with a gauge, then if all of them hit required parameters for icing (which typically would be, medium altitudes, passing through clouds with a high moisture content at low temperature). If all the boxes are ticked for your gauge that is monitoring those parameters, then you could have the aircraft model covertly deploy a flap reduction parameter to the flight model (even if it actually is not a genuine flap system the aircraft has and gives no indication to the user that this had occurred). Minus flap settings can definitely be modeled in FS, because it's been done with some glider models that feature negative flap settings like their real-world counterparts have for when doing high speed dashes through areas of sink. With a minus value applied to the lift of the flight model, and one that also adds a bit of drag as well, bingo, you've got a simulation of airframe icing (albeit a simplified one), which of course you could then remove by flying the aircraft into a situation where your gauge gets variable information that unticks its icing paramter boxes and removes its covertly applied lift and drag settings, making the aircraft fly normally again.Whether any developers would go to the trouble of actually doing all that is another matter of course, and to some extent it would be a bit of a 'canned effect' but there is certainly no reason why that could not be done (and the way I mention is not the only method for achieving it). So the answer is yes, you can simulate airframe icing in FS, and you could even do tailplane icing jams by having such efforts affect the tailplane in the flight model when the flaps get lowered, although it would take a bit of thought to get things working in a believable way.One of the problems with doing it though, is that to spend a lot of time modeling a beautifully accurate aeroplane in FS, and then throw in some canned effect that can make it fly like a brick, is probably not that appealing to the average user, especially when the default weather in FS would have to be the thing you'd rig it for, which is another issue, since the visuals for the clouds in FS do not relate exactly to where the temperatures are in FS, as it simply isn't that precise, especially when the graphics sliders are messed around with by the user.Another thing which makes it probably rarer than it is, is that the kind of high end add-on that might feature such a thing would typically be an airliner, but really, it's only turboprop airliners that get really badly affected by airframe icing (because of the fact that they operate more in the regime where airframe icing is likely), and there simply aren't that many high-end turboprop airliners around for FS. Jet airliners are more likely to be bothered by engine nacelle icing or possibly by water ingestion swamping the engines when passing through rain clouds, jets simply don't spend enough time in the conditions where airframe ice accretion is most likely to have it be that much of an issue. A high-end GA twin prop aircraft that could make it up to 20,000 feet on the other hand, would probably be worth having a stab at creating an airframe icing effect for, since many users of expensive GA add-ons for FS use them in addition to flying the real things, and they'd probably appreciate the realism of throwing such a risk in there.Al

Al - I just want to say thank you for all the thoughtful posts you do on here. Whenever I see a post by you I know I will find balance, technical knowledge and a real desire to help. :(

[momtchil 32]

Try this file from the library:***********************************The Ice Gauge for FS9 or FSXDownload ID: 135386Filename: icev10.zipLicense: FreewareAdded: 25th February 2009Downloads: 1999Author: Charles (Dutch) OwenSize: 16kb***********************************It works for both FS9 and FSX, and also contains a lot of useful information on how icing works in both simulators.

[Chock 17,769]

Al - I just want to say thank you for all the thoughtful posts you do on here. Whenever I see a post by you I know I will find balance, technical knowledge and a real desire to help. :(

Nah, it's all done with smoke and mirrors mate, I'm as thick as a brick in reality LOLAl

[kiwiflyer45 123]

Nah, it's all done with smoke and mirrors mate, I'm as thick as a brick in reality LOLAl

LOL - well you must be pretty damn smart to pull off all those smoke and mirror illusions! Sure fooled me! :(

Try this file from the library:***********************************The Ice Gauge for FS9 or FSXDownload ID: 135386Filename: icev10.zipLicense: FreewareAdded: 25th February 2009Downloads: 1999Author: Charles (Dutch) OwenSize: 16kb***********************************It works for both FS9 and FSX, and also contains a lot of useful information on how icing works in both simulators.

Thanks for noticing the thread and helping us out! :( icev10.zip is a handy gauge to have for those who can modify panels and install it. But it doesn't actually increase the FS9 icing effects. What it does do is measure the amount of airframe icing and also warns about freezing rain. Definitely worth having.

[ZK_LGD 0]

Yes, icing is present in FS9. "Dutch's" ice-gauge only reports the presence of icing; it is up to the simmer to set the proper conditions within the sim. "Dutch"'s Ice-Gauge Readme, whilst extremely dense, tells you all (it also requires some editing of .air files). Naturally, there is some debate on how well icing is simulated in FS, but at least he has provided the answer that it is, in fact, present and that it can be modelled.   Regards,Dorian 

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,All our weather programs simulate icing conditions.

[kiwiflyer45 123]

Hi,All our weather programs simulate icing conditions.

Hi JimI think the issue the originator of the thread wanted to raise is that there do not seem to be any real consequences to flying in icing conditions in FS9. I love Active Sky and use it on all my point to point flights. But even with that and the icing option checked, I have never encountered an icing problem other than the pitot tube freezing. I will admit that in the real world I would have been thrilled to not have to worry about ice - I had all the experiences of it in my career that I ever want. But it would be great if there was a way to "ramp up" the icing effect in FS9 to where it really matters. In all my years of flying FS, it's never been something I've even noticed.

[flyinpilot212121 724]

Hi JimI think the issue the originator of the thread wanted to raise is that there do not seem to be any real consequences to flying in icing conditions in FS9. I love Active Sky and use it on all my point to point flights. But even with that and the icing option checked, I have never encountered an icing problem other than the pitot tube freezing. I will admit that in the real world I would have been thrilled to not have to worry about ice - I had all the experiences of it in my career that I ever want. But it would be great if there was a way to "ramp up" the icing effect in FS9 to where it really matters. In all my years of flying FS, it's never been something I've even noticed.

I too am a big fan of active sky and wont fly without it, EVER. But same here on my end, only pitot icing with it checked and have never run into airframe icing with the ticky box checked.

[JSkorna 137]

Hi All,There are posts way back to ASv6.5 that will tell you about how airframe icing will occur; lowering the airspeed, adding weight to the plane, increasing the stall speed, causing the plane to be sluggish, etc.No, the ice will not be seen on the plane, but the effects will be present.Also, remember that many of you have reduced the effects of icing in your copies of FSUIPC.

[JP_Visser 3]

Gotta back Jim up here,he is absolutely right about it.You just have to remember FSUIPC enables it to be shut off completely or gradually.But it is modelled and you will notice if it is present and no program is limiting it.JP.

[docbrown 0]

Also, remember that many of you have reduced the effects of icing in your copies of FSUIPC.

I have an unregistered version of FSUIPC. Is icing automatically turned off in the unregistered version?In other words, in order to have realistic airframe icing effects in FS9, all I need is Active Sky (either 6.5 or Evolution), of course the right kind of weather, and ... what else?Thanks,Doc

[flyinpilot212121 724]

Hi All,There are posts way back to ASv6.5 that will tell you about how airframe icing will occur; lowering the airspeed, adding weight to the plane, increasing the stall speed, causing the plane to be sluggish, etc.No, the ice will not be seen on the plane, but the effects will be present.Also, remember that many of you have reduced the effects of icing in your copies of FSUIPC.

Ill have to look into fsuipc to see what my settings are set at. Thanks for that bit of info Jim.Is it hard to find within fsuipc??