RealAir Turbine Duke

[robert young 2,897]

What I would like to see is when you put the props in feather they make that Swooshing sound while they remain in feather.

I think there are perhaps some assumptions here that FSX can achieve almost anything with any aircraft. It can't, at least by using the normal FSX set of parameters even after much tweaking, and we've already stretched what is possible in many ways. Sound-wise, there are quite severe limitations about what sounds you can apply since the FSX sound engine is restricted to very limited functions, without a lot of custom programming which is expensive, very time consuming and not always reliable.Spool up time for Turbo Props can easily be speeded up in FSX, but the internal turboprop parameters are severely limited so that a fast spool will result in temporary prop overspeed, unless you truncate this tendency so much (with another parameter) that the prop rpm starts fluctuating widly back and forth. If you look at the prop rpm gauge in the two default turbo prop aircraft you will see exactly this, but of course because the Kingair and Caravan sounds are mapped NOT to props, but only to throttle, this flaw is completely masked.So everything is a compromise between what is desirable and what is practical or possible. Having said that, the Duke spool up speed is not that slow, and we've managed to contain the tendency to overspeed the props while they settle down, provided you do not start up with more than LOW IDLE.Regarding the general flight model, there is much more scope for custom tweaks and we feel we have tweaked both Dukes so that with a well calibrated joystick they fly with very harmonised controls.Regarding lights, there are separate controls for Left and Right landing lights, which means it is difficult to assign a global key or hardware controller button. In other cases, for example cowl flaps in the Piston Duke, something in FSX is broken which prevents us from assigning a key press or button to this custom animated function. It is not that we deliberately don't do so just to annoy everyone!FSX is a good sim, but many workarounds of inherent flaws or bugs have to be applied just to overcome some basic things that are missing. Another area is wheels which lock when you press the braking key, but this doesn't happen when you use differential or incremental braking with toe pedals.Many qualities one sees, not just in our aircraft, but others too, are nearly always the result of a lot of work-arounds to avoid many of the default settings which prevent a perfect simulation. At least half of some developers' time is spent overcoming these limitations or finding, even fudging, ways around them.I think it is important to see current aircraft, sceneries and utilities (whether free or payware) in the context of how FSX ran when it was first released. There has been enormous progress towards stretching itsd capabilites that couldn't have been imagined just a few years ago. This progress in functionality has led to expectations of even more sophistication, and understandably many users assume this can keep on going, with ever more demands for reality and perfection. Very few developers are lazy about providing the best they can within their knowledge and skills. They are as aware as users are about what is desirable.When someone comments: "They didn't include this" or they "failed to do that", perhaps it is not often understood that some developers try endlessly to overcome some basic flaws or limitations in FSX which even the most unconventional and lateral thinking is not always successful in overcoming. FSX can only do so much, and rather similar to computer processor efficiency, it is getting ever closer to the point where constant pushing of its boundaries will reach a limit.All the best,Rob - RealAir

[Superpilotv2 2]

Yeah, Rob. I thik you´ve reached the limits and worked with them as good as it goes and even pushed them a bit further.

[Jack_C 1]

You could shut the real engines down with the props in fine pitch but this would be done for purposes of maintenance, you would not want to leave this type of engine that way on the ground for the reasons of free wheeling in the wind with no oil pressure. You could also encounter a linkage failure which would also cause this to happen but why would that get simulated? There are some other turboprop engine/propellor combinations that do get shut down with the props in fine (its actually flat) pitch, the Garrett engines in the Cheyenne 400 with those huge composite props comes to mind.

Hey Zane. I think you are misled on how these pt6 shut down. It doesn't matter where the props levers are on shutdown. They will always end up in feather. The garretts are a whole different breed of engine. The have a mechanical stop just like some pistons do to prevent them from feathering on shutdown. That is not to say they can be shutdown in feather. You have to manually put them on the pitch stops on shutdown by place the power levers into reverse thrust right when you shut them down. If you dont they will end up in feather if the engines are rigged properly.

[Guest bstolle]

FSX is a good sim, but many workarounds of inherent flaws or bugs have to be applied just to overcome some basic things that are missing. Another area is wheels which lock when you press the braking key, but this doesn't happen when you use differential or incremental braking with toe pedals.Rob - RealAir

That's not an FSX bug, you just have to enable the anti skid e.g. with an assigned key ;)Because GA planes normally don't have an anti skid, we enabled it by default on the Milviz Cessna 310 when loading the plane. So you have full braking capability without the need to use an, in this case, unrealistic keypress. RegardsBernt

[zfehr 1]

Hey Zane. I think you are misled on how these pt6 shut down. It doesn't matter where the props levers are on shutdown. They will always end up in feather. The garretts are a whole different breed of engine. The have a mechanical stop just like some pistons do to prevent them from feathering on shutdown. That is not to say they can be shutdown in feather. You have to manually put them on the pitch stops on shutdown by place the power levers into reverse thrust right when you shut them down. If you dont they will end up in feather if the engines are rigged properly.

Not misled, just never explained to me. In shutting down the PT-6's (TBM700, TBM850, PC12, Royal Turbine, King Air) I've flown we've always pulled the levers back on shutdown. I've seen these aircraft in service facilities with propellors out of feather so assumed the pitch system would work the same as in piston engined aircraft with constant speed props.

[Jack_C 1]

Ahh gotcha there bud. The maintenance guy can hook up pressure to the prop hub to force the props out of feather and towards fine pitch. The pratts have no pitch stops so as soon as the oil pressure goes bye bye the props go to feather.

[robert young 2,897]

That's not an FSX bug, you just have to enable the anti skid e.g. with an assigned key ;)Because GA planes normally don't have an anti skid, we enabled it by default on the Milviz Cessna 310 when loading the plane. So you have full braking capability without the need to use an, in this case, unrealistic keypress. RegardsBernt

Ah...well we all learn something everyday. I never knew that!! Thanks Bernt.Rob

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

...You just have to enable the anti skid e.g. with an assigned key ;)....So you have full braking capability without the need to use an, in this case, unrealistic keypress. RegardsBernt

That is a most amazing "trick"!I just added a little XML-gauge and bingo, the wheels don't lock..This will work for any airplane :( For anyone who would like to try it:

<Gauge Name="Anti_skid" Version="1.0"><!-- Turn on Anti-skid -->   <Element>      <Select>       <Value>           (L:AntiSkidInit,bool) 1 != if{              (A:ANTISKID BRAKES ACTIVE,bool) 1 != if{ 0 (>K:ANTISKID_BRAKES_TOGGLE) }                1 (>L:AntiSkidInit,bool)                             }            </Value>           </Select>    </Element></Gauge>

[dukeftw 0]

Thanks for all your feedback guys, I'm still not so sure to which extent this Duke represents a real Turbine Duke, but I think I'll go ahead and give it a shot. That I will like it is probably out of question, I just wonder about the authenticity. So if anyone has any experiences with real turbine aircrafts, I would still love to hear their opinions.Cya in the air!

[Superpilotv2 2]

That is a most amazing "trick"!I just added a little XML-gauge and bingo, the wheels don't lock..This will work for any airplane :( For anyone who would like to try it:

<Gauge Name="Anti_skid" Version="1.0"><!-- Turn on Anti-skid -->   <Element>  	<Select>       <Value>           (L:AntiSkidInit,bool) 1 != if{  			(A:ANTISKID BRAKES ACTIVE,bool) 1 != if{ 0 (>K:ANTISKID_BRAKES_TOGGLE) }    			1 (>L:AntiSkidInit,bool)                 			}            </Value>       	</Select>    </Element></Gauge>

Nice trick, Bert. But how to implement it in the Duke?Btw., here are some pictures of my last flights with our beloved Turbine Duke. ( I know that´s not the right forum for this, but ithink it´ll fit in here.)On FL 250, making my way down from Bella Coola to Friday Habour.Climbing out Friday Habour on another nice morning on the way to Portland-Hillboro.Allways happy flyin´

[curt1 79]

Really enjoying this thread, a lot of useful information. In the spirit of flying correctly, I'd like to ask about proper use of the icing systems. I know from flying heavies that the probe heat is normally on, if not always. I would think the pitot heat would be on most of the time as well in the Duke, would it not? I believe icing conditions are 10 degrees C or less with moisture conditions, would those be different with this airplane? Finally, when in icing conditions, would one apply all systems on at the same time? Thanks for any feedback.Curt

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

Nice trick, Bert. But how to implement it in the Duke?

1. Put the xml code into a text file with Notepad and call the file AntiSkid.xml 2. Put the AntiSkid.xml file into the Duke Panel/Config folder3. Add a line to the Duke panel.cfg file in the Vcockpit01 section gauge20=Config!AntiSkid, 600,602,1,1

[zfehr 1]

Thanks for all your feedback guys, I'm still not so sure to which extent this Duke represents a real Turbine Duke, but I think I'll go ahead and give it a shot. That I will like it is probably out of question, I just wonder about the authenticity. So if anyone has any experiences with real turbine aircrafts, I would still love to hear their opinions.Cya in the air!

You did notice my threads where I pointed out that I did fly the real N157JT in 2008? This sim recreation by RealAir is as good as the sim gets for turboprop GA aircraft!

[kaydub 3]

Overall, a thoroughly excellent GA Aircraft - arguably the best after-market payware GA aircraft for FSX. Having said that, there are a couple of minor disappointments for me. One, the prop pitch doesn't actually alter! Unlike the Kodiak Quest or many of the Carenado aircraft, there is visibly nothing to see when moving the pitch levers (engine OFF of course). Secondly, the sound transition from "reverse" to idle is harsh. Minor details, but if Rob from RealAir is monitoring this thread - ideas for SP1 perhaps? Otherwise - I'M LOVIN IT!

The Duke behaves correctly in that the prop levers only alter prop pitch when the engines are running. If the engines are shut down, moving the prop lever does nothing to the blade angle.K

The Turbine Duke is a lovely plane, but I still prefer to fly the standard Duke. It's more controllable, with quick response to engine power changes.

The difference between reciprocating and turbine. Throttle response. The Navy had to learn the lesson on carrier traps...

[dukeftw 0]

You did notice my threads where I pointed out that I did fly the real N157JT in 2008? This sim recreation by RealAir is as good as the sim gets for turboprop GA aircraft!

Yes, actually I did. I guess the question I'm having is what this "as good as the sim gets for turboprop GA aircraft" exactly means. E.g. how big the discrepancy still is compared to the behaviour of the real thing, since I don't have any personal experience with flying turbine aircrafts and FSX not being the best place for developing turbine aircrafts.Cheers.