patch not working

[pager94 4]

Ok-pager-I am putting you on notice. This is the third thread with your ranting and raving all on the same item and I notice you don't seem to be taking any of the help other users are giving you.That is called trolling and we don't allow it here.Take the hint-thanks, Charlie too.

I had mistakenly put my recent technical problems in the wrong Carenado sub-forum "Commander". My intention in posting in these directly appropriate theads "Patch not working" and "Refund" in the Carenado B58 was to get some input on a technical issues, and not to troll.Best,BB

[pager94 4]

That is a problem with the sim, and has been since FS2000 at least. The flight sim engine model makes no distinction between normally aspirated engines, fuel-injected engines, or turbocharged engines...EVERY recip engine model is subject to "carburetor icing..."Now that said, it is possible for a prudent modeler to simply turn on "carb heat" for the customer automatically on first load, so it never becomes a "problem" for the customer, but that's a choice to be made by the systems programmer for any given project.There are quite a few problematic areas in the core of Flight Simulator (any version), but workarounds for such problems have been developed over the years. It's all too easy for a developer to overlook some of these flaws though!For example, one project I'm currently working on is for an aircraft that has no "GPS" at all, nor does it have a DME audio control. Until one of my beta team members stumbled across a situation where this lack became an issue, I hadn't even thought about it!The "solution" however was simple enough to implement by adding some logic on first load that will pre-set the sim variables for the user transparently...

    (A:DME SOUND,bool) if{ (>K:RADIO_DME1_IDENT_DISABLE) }    (A:GPS DRIVES NAV1,bool) if{ (>K:TOGGLE_GPS_DRIVES_NAV1) }

Those two commands will check to see if DME sound is turned on. If it is, it turns it OFF! Likewise, if the previous aircraft loaded had left the NAV/GPS switch in GPS mode, it will revert the panel system to NAV mode.

Bill,Thanks for the input. I don't have this icing problem with other recipicating add-on's, only Carenado. Also, I have the icing problem in the Carenado caravan which has a turbine engine. If this core icing problem has been in FSX since FS2000, why has a premier developer like Carenado not fixed it. Also, how can a Carenado Cessna Caravan turbine engine have carburator ice and have it go away when carburator heat is applied? I disagree that this issue was overlooked by Carenado and relate it more toward incompetency, since 90+% of Carendo products are piston driven.I appoligize for sounding frusturated but I have purchase sevaral Carenado planes and most are plagued with basic functionality problems. As a paying customer I expect a basic functioning product and not have to go in and spend hours upon hours in the forums and hardcoding to get things fixed in Carenado products that should have been taken care of in alpha and beta testing.Anyway, my recent response from Carendo is that their is no problems and the plane stalls properly and was tested by 5 B58 pilots. I find it hard to believe that the legendary B58 plumets at a 60 degree nose down angle after a stall. It's also VERY interesting that Carendo is telling some customers that the B58 was tested by C340 pilots and now Carenado is telling me it was tested by 5 B58 pilots. Could it be the B58 wasn't tested by ANY pilots? :( Carendo did fix the GPS / HSI couple in the 2nd B58 service pack FINALLY after about 6 planes and countless emails.Also, I wanted to ask the forum members if hard coding in these numberous fixes for Carenado products violates the EULA? :( Thanks,BB

[n4gix 4,947]

Bill,Thanks for the input. I don't have this icing problem with other recipicating add-on's, only Carenado. Also, I have the icing problem in the Carenado caravan which has a turbine engine. If this core icing problem has been in FSX since FS2000, why has a premier developer like Carenado not fixed it. Also, how can a Carenado Cessna Caravan turbine engine have carburator ice and have it go away when carburator heat is applied? I disagree that this issue was overlooked by Carenado and relate it more toward incompetency, since 90+% of Carendo products are piston driven.

BB, I ask you to note several things:1. I have no pony in this race. I work for a competitive company (several in fact, Eaglesoft and MilViz). I am however compelled to speak up whenever I see even a competitor taking a "beatdown" based entirely on wrong assumptions and/or incomplete knowledge.2. What I've written is based on nearly fifteen years of experience in modeling and gauge/systems programming for the flightsim product.3. This particular flaw will show up in even in the default aircraft under the same conditions.4. Irrespective of the all of the above, it is a sure and certain FACT that even fuel-injected engines, as well as turbine engines are subject to ice blockages. Simply consider "carb heat" as being the control for deicing the air intakes, or providing an ALT AIR source for them.Here is direct quote from an AOPA article on the subject of icing problems:Aircraft Icing

Fuel-injected engines have no carburetor and, therefore, no carburetor ice problem. However, when conditions are favorable for structural ice, fuel-injected engines can lose power and even fail if the air filter and intake passages are blocked by ice. (This can also occur in airplanes with carburetors.) At the first sign of power loss, activate the alternate induction air door or doors. When these doors open, intake air routes through them, bypassing the iceblocked normal induction air pathway. Many alternate induction air systems activate automatically; these designs use spring-loaded doors. Suction in an ice-blocked air intake draws these alternate air doors open. Some older fuel-injected airplanes have alternate air doors that must be manually opened. Knobs or levers have to be physically moved to the open position in order for alternate air to reach the engine. Check the POH for your airplane to find out how and when to use this system.

[pager94 4]

BB, I ask you to note several things:1. I have no pony in this race. I work for a competitive company (several in fact, Eaglesoft and MilViz). I am however compelled to speak up whenever I see even a competitor taking a "beatdown" based entirely on wrong assumptions and/or incomplete knowledge.2. What I've written is based on nearly fifteen years of experience in modeling and gauge/systems programming for the flightsim product.3. This particular flaw will show up in even in the default aircraft under the same conditions.4. Irrespective of the all of the above, it is a sure and certain FACT that even fuel-injected engines, as well as turbine engines are subject to ice blockages. Simply consider "carb heat" as being the control for deicing the air intakes, or providing an ALT AIR source for them.Here is direct quote from an AOPA article on the subject of icing problems:Aircraft Icing

Hi Bill,I wasn't trying to challenge your opinion. As the AOPA article states, "Fuel-injected engines have no carburetor and, therefore, no carburetor ice problem." I have not flown a turboprop driven aircraft in real life, however I would assume this same statement is true for turboprops.The PMDG Jetstream 4100, Beech 1900, Beech 1900D, Flight 1 ATR, and Flight 1 Pilatus PC-12 ALL of these non-Carenado turboprobs do not have icing problems, while the Carenado Caravan does. All aircraft have anomolies, in particular with respect to icing, given extreme and unique conditions. I'm sure Carenado did not program these unique engine icing anomolies for realism sake.Another example of freezing anomolies, Jet A fuel feezes at FL altitudes with airline operations over the greenland and North poll. Thus, airlines like United have to add a special additive to the Jet a to lower the freezing point of the fuel and do exensive tests to the exact fuel in the tanks before these operations. Also, on these flight the fuel is constantly pumped around the different tanks so the fluid dynamics are constantly in motion and prevent freezing.Anyway, all i'm trying to say is that most premiere flight add on companies, Flight 1, PMDG, etc. are competent enough to have fixed this FSX bug in their commerical products, while Carenado has not.Then again, what do I know I've been flying in real life for 18 years.I won't be buying the C-90 for sure. It's taken over 1 year just to get the HSI/GPS couple to work, alone. Also, the clock in the Commander doesn't even work. How is a pilot to time turns in a holding pattern with no clock? I guess we'll have to see IF it get's fixed in some future service pack. Thanks for th info, it's nice to know the carb heat is always there to fix this flaw in Carenado products.I could never do guage programming, on these to level of detail is required these days. Don't have the patience.....Best Regards,BB

[Guest bstolle]

1. Another example of freezing anomolies, Jet A fuel feezes at FL altitudes with airline operations over the greenland and North poll. Thus, airlines like United have to add a special additive to the Jet a to lower the freezing point of the fuel and do exensive tests to the exact fuel in the tanks before these operations. Also, on these flight the fuel is constantly pumped around the different tanks so the fluid dynamics are constantly in motion and prevent freezing.2. Then again, what do I know I've been flying in real life for 18 years.

1. That's weird with the freezing Jet fuel and I'm really surprised about the 'facts' you mentioned.Just this morning I was flying over Greenland without any fuel additive and without 'constantly pumping fuel around' and guess what, we DID make it to Toronto! Whew, but I didn't know that it was that close!2. After reading the part about the freezing jet fuel, I fully agree.

[pager94 4]

1. That's weird with the freezing Jet fuel and I'm really surprised about the 'facts' you mentioned.Just this morning I was flying over Greenland without any fuel additive and without 'constantly pumping fuel around' and guess what, we DID make it to Toronto! Whew, but I didn't know that it was that close!2. After reading the part about the freezing jet fuel, I fully agree.

Sorry bstolle,I should have mentioned the freezing Jet fuel facts were in reference to real life flying, not FSX. I haven't tried it in FSX. Your much braver than I am. :( I have a bunch of the cockpit videos from world air routes (http://www.worldairroutes.com/United.html) the Alaska airlines and United are awesome!I can't remember the details of where I got from the Jet fuel freezing over the North Pole. But it was a captain for a major airline explaining in detail the whole process. It was very intriguing. Especially, that he has to wait for fuel chemistry results from the lab before engine start to make 100% sure it's right. We don't want both engines shutting down in the FL's over the North pole. LOL. Cheers,BB

[Guest bstolle]

Erm, I AM talking about real flying and not FSX.....Greetings from Toronto

[Geofa 108]

Sorry bstolle,I should have mentioned the freezing Jet fuel facts were in reference to real life flying, not FSX. I haven't tried it in FSX. Your much braver than I am. I have a bunch of the cockpit videos from world air routes (http://www.worldairr...com/United.html) the Alaska airlines and United are awesome!I can't remember the details of where I got from the Jet fuel freezing over the North Pole. But it was a captain for a major airline explaining in detail the whole process. It was very intriguing. Especially, that he has to wait for fuel chemistry results from the lab before engine start to make 100% sure it's right. We don't want both engines shutting down in the FL's over the North pole. LOL. Cheers,BB

I don't think Bernt is speaking of the sim....you do know he is an 767 captain rw along with being an avid simmer? <edit> I see we posted at the same time!

[n4gix 4,947]

The PMDG Jetstream 4100, Beech 1900, Beech 1900D, Flight 1 ATR, and Flight 1 Pilatus PC-12 ALL of these non-Carenado turboprobs do not have icing problems, while the Carenado Caravan does.

Of course they don't! Did you miss this from my previous reply?

Now that said, it is possible for a prudent modeler to simply turn on "carb heat" for the customer automatically on first load, so it never becomes a "problem" for the customer, but that's a choice to be made by the systems programmer for any given project.

As I also said, it's very easy to overlook some things during development and even the most through alpha and beta tests can miss things as well.I have a standard block of code that I use for all new projects that pre-sets nearly all of the standard sim variables whenever the aircraft is first loaded. I've found it's more efficient to remove code that I don't need than it is to remember to ADD it in later... :(

[pager94 4]

I don't think Bernt is speaking of the sim....you do know he is an 767 captain rw along with being an avid simmer? <edit> I see we posted at the same time!

I must be a newbie around here. Does somebody have an extra pair of diapers? :(

1. That's weird with the freezing Jet fuel and I'm really surprised about the 'facts' you mentioned.Just this morning I was flying over Greenland without any fuel additive and without 'constantly pumping fuel around' and guess what, we DID make it to Toronto! Whew, but I didn't know that it was that close!2. After reading the part about the freezing jet fuel, I fully agree.

Did you fly directly over the north pole?

[pager94 4]

1. That's weird with the freezing Jet fuel and I'm really surprised about the 'facts' you mentioned.Just this morning I was flying over Greenland without any fuel additive and without 'constantly pumping fuel around' and guess what, we DID make it to Toronto! Whew, but I didn't know that it was that close!2. After reading the part about the freezing jet fuel, I fully agree.

Bert, Apparently Boeing has published all the facts regarding polar air operations, I was refering too. But I'm just a piston scud driver. :( I was thinking that Northern Greenland was in the polar area, but I guess not. This is another verification that some of us Americans are ignorant in geography outside contiguous U.S. :( "The FAA requires operators to obtain specific approval to conduct polar operations. Current requirements for an airline to develop necessary plans in preparation for polar flights are contained in the FAA information memorandum Guidance for Polar Operations (March 5, 2001). As for fuel temperature during polar operations, implementing a cold fuel management process allows airlines to address cold fuel temperatures during dispatch.""Some operators in the United States measure the actual freezing point of delivered Jet A fuel at the time of dispatch. Data show that the freezing point of delivered Jet A fuel is approximately 3°C lower than the specification maximum of –40°C. Table 1 shows the results of a study completed at several airports in the United States to verify the actual freezing point of Jet A fuel as delivered to the airplane. (An airline must verify the freezing point of the loaded fuel at dispatch if the airline uses a value other than the maximum specification."Here is the link for Boeings' and FAA recommendations for polar operations including Cold Fuel Management.http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_16/polar_story.html#3Cheers, BillyBob

[Guest bstolle]

Bert, Apparently Boeing has published all the facts regarding polar air operations, I was refering too. But I'm just a piston scud driver. :( I was thinking that Northern Greenland was in the polar area, but I guess not.

Let's see, you claim to be 'just a piston scud driver' since 18 years but you can't distinguish a throttle from a prop lever.Then you mention Greenland, suddenly it's northern Greenland.As I mentioned already on the first page of this thread in reply to your weird statements....no one should take you serious.Have a nice day

[Smiffy 0]

This billybob isnt it time he was removed from the service

[pager94 4]

no one should take you serious.

Of course that would be your intelligent well thought out response....Be well.