PFE or RC4?

[andysim 0]

PFE or Radar Contact? which would you choose and why? ive tried both and RC4 seems less complicated but PFE seems to allow more options like VFR and basic ground handling. Just wanted some insider views so I can practice with them ready for the NGX. Im doing short hops with the J41/MD11 atm. And some back to basics flying with the A2A B377 COTS.

[Akila 39]

Here is what I wrote in the VoxATC forum, I can't compare it to RC4 but I tested both PFE and VoxATC, VoxATC was a clear winner for.I advise you looking into VoxATC as well.I tried PFE about 2 months ago when I was reviewing what product I should go for to replace the FSX ATCit is far worse then VoxATC on few notes that broke me from using it (RC I have not tried).1) you must file a SID/STAR in your flight plan (you loose the dynamic of an ATC assigning you one)2) you need to file a dedicated PFE flight plan, unlike VoxATC that reads your FSX flight plan, which I liked since I use vroute.info Premium and I can easily export the flight plan to FSX and just import it before I fly3 )it doesn't use any AIRAC data4) you loose granularity of voices packs (e.g. IVONA,AT&T) you could add and improve your ATC, you are stuck with what they got , even though they have many accents, yet I still find it hard to understand and a bit robotic IMO5) and the worse part is that it doesn't control AI traffic , only controls you taking in consideration other traffic, you hear the AI traffic talk to the MSFS ATC in the background (hated it, it's like having two ATCs - one for you and the other for AI)6) I don't remember if it is PFE or RC4, but one of them doesn't control Ground , i.e. No Taxi to/from gate to/from the RW.VoxATC was the true winner for me (I even haven't waited for the trail to run out and I got it on the 4th day as I was so happy with it compared to PFE, RC don't have trail versions, or at least I couldn't find any)VoxATC is not a perfect one, but it is sure provided me almost everything I was looking for.I am very happy I went with VoxATC for the following reasons (I mainly do IFR flight, VFR flights have other options that I did not mention here as I haven't tested them)1) VoxATC fully supports and fully controls UT2 AI traffic which I own (or any other BGL AI traffic based) - PFE does not do that.2) It reads the standard FSX flight plan (which most of flight plan tools out there Free or not support exporting to that format)3) you don't need to load a flight plan to the VoxATC, nothing. all I need to do is load the flight plan in FSX as you would do if you would use the regular FSX ATC (VoxATC would read it automatically)4) It fully support REX or any other weather program like ASE you got (as it reads the actual weather that is in the FSX regardless on how it got there) - PFE/RC4 would support them as well.5) ATIS is replaced by the VoxATC (others also do it I guess)6) VoxATC fully utilizes the AIRAC in route & SID/STAR/Approach, etc (it uses the LEVEL-D AIRAC Installation Pack),VoxATC as apposed to PFE & RC does use Navigraph Airac cycle (AIRAC) and could be updated like any other AIRAC product (very important)7) it support Holding, route divination to avaiod traffic or weather and fist officer to handle COMMs (I personally disabled the two later ones)8) you don't need to pick or file in the flight plan any SID/STAR as the VoxATC would know to assign you one based on the RW in use and the flight plan (that really charmed me),you do however have an option picking your own SID/STAR if you wish so, you could also ask the VoxATC to vector you to final if you don't want to use a SID/STAR, or request from the ATC NDB / VORDME /RNAV,etc approachby published procedures (based on the AIRAC you installed for VoxATC).9) VoxATC is very accurate and knows when to start your decent (pretty much at the same time I see the T/D on ND), same for ascend. it also follows ALT/Speed Restrictions based on the AIRAC. 10) many would say that Voice recognition (talking to the ATC) is far more realistic then pressing buttons on the Menu, personal for me it was not one of my set objectives for an FSX ATC replacement program.11) You can add 3rd party TTS Voices e.g. AT&T, IVONA, NeoSpeach (Any TTS SAPI5 voice pack would do) and assigned them either to the ATC controller or the AI traffic being controlled by VoATC or both.12) you can D/L a fully functional VoxATC for 7 days trail.13) *Disadvantage* VoxATC appears to be a bit more expensive then other ATC(s) programs on the market (e.g. PFE/RC4)I personally looked for a more realistic ATC then FSX ATC, rather talking to it or pressing a button on the ATC menu.

[mwilk 1,106]

Andrew, I was a long time user of RC, and it is still a great program. I do a lot of my flying in Europe so the great variety of voices that PFE has really appealed to me. The deal with PFE is that it's only as good as the flight plan that you construct. You sometimes have to go in and assign altitudes so ATC can get you down in a reasonable distance, but it's not that hard to do. I'd really like to see a marriage between RC and PFE and that would be the best of both worlds.

[bblackkbirdd 6]

Hi Folks - Blackbird here.......not sure this thread is approriate in this forum, but I will reply anyway (please move this if necessary - thanks!).I have used all 3 ATC programs, with differing amounts of satisfaction. My fav is the new (v 6.05) version of VoxATC. :( (I was using v5 of VoxATC for a while, but then changed to RC4, and have used that for the last 8 months.)Before I expound on the "virtues" of the new VoxATC, let me just say this - I've used both PFE and RC4 - both are nice programs - both are well supported. I preferred RC4. The new VoxATC has handled my IFR flights with perfect aplomb, has worked without lockup, crash, and does NOT forget that I'm in the air (the old version of same program used to do that frequently - to me, anyway).The new version works seamlessly with my weather (ASX), and with the ATT voices I have purchased, which really sound quite good. I even figured out how to make those voices work with 64 bit Windows 7 (which is my OS). I also use the VoxPOP free voices with it (they are just ok - but hey....they're FREE! All together I use 8 voices for controllers, and use all the VoxPOP voices for other AI pilot voices. My FO is an ATT voice - very clear and "friendly" (I go back and forth between a female and male FO - equality and all :( ). Sometimes I'll let the FO handle the radios (which the whiz-kid does perfectly), and sometimes I'll press the PTT button myself, and handle all comms as well as fly the aircraft - fun, you bet! When I'm feeling really lazy, I'll start up Speech Buddy (Free), and speak my commands (like Flaps down/up, tune radios, set heading, air speed, altitude, etc..) I load 2 profiles into Speech Buddy to do the radio and atittude setting - strange, but it works. The only thing I don't like about using Speech Buddy (and most other speech programs, for that matter!) is that it is dependent on my starting Microsoft Speech recognition - which I don't care to do, as it sometimes confuses things I say, and will all of a sudden run an errant program. (I have done a lot of trainng to MS Speech - doesn't matter. Works very well most of the time, but every once in a while - Bammo!)Which brings me to the best part of the new VoxATC - it does not need Micorosoft Speech to be running at all..... This is great!! No misunderstandings!!!For me, at this time, VoxATC beats the others hands-down. (And I used to love Radar Contact v4 - can't wait to see his new version, when it's done - but that will take a while.)Oh, one more thing, as was mentioned earlier, VoxATC will use all your AI traffic - it does a wonderful job of generating same. (However, you must turn down traffic in FSX - down to zero) - no worries, you'll have plenty of traffic!. VoxATC gets my planes from Traffic X, which is my AI trafffic program.Ok - I've monopolized this thread long enough.........that's my 2 cents about VoxATC.All best, Ray Landolt (Blackbird)

[mwilk 1,106]

Ray, I'ved look at Vox but didn't get too far into it. It seems a little pricey by the time you buy the program and then add the voices.

[wanabflyer 53]

PFE or Radar Contact? which would you choose and why? ive tried both and RC4 seems less complicated but PFE seems to allow more options like VFR and basic ground handling. Just wanted some insider views so I can practice with them ready for the NGX. Im doing short hops with the J41/MD11 atm. And some back to basics flying with the A2A B377 COTS.

RC4 hands down. However there is a lot i don't like about RC4 that i really am hoping will be eliminated in RC5 because what i don't like about RC4 is overshadowed by what i like.

[Evan Banalian 5]

I tired VOXATC 6.05 demo and I found that it didn't control the traffic on the ground If I was about to crash into someone it never warns me or direct me ??? I'm not sure if this is the way it works or I got something wrong going on. I have UT2 traffic installed and used UT2 Bridge to convert the traffic for voxatc.I need to decide what i'm getting as well, also I'm using Vatsim.

[bblackkbirdd 6]

Hi guys - Blackbird (Ray Landolt) again........MWILK - yeah, VoxATC is kind of expensive, especially when you add ATT voices - I bought my ATT voices over a couple of years time.That is one that was nicely done in RC4 (the addition of Meatwater's voices - he did a great job with those - very real.)Evan - I agree with you about the ground incursion issue - however, the AI traffic never runs into me - but I do occasionally run into them (if I'm taking a corner, and do not look out the side window - DUH! Go me! :( I wish ground did a better job of letting me know who's around. I also have not been able to find any sort of support forum for VoxATC.Of course, after the day's events (2 planes on the ground clipping each other), maybe VoxATC is not so far off - :( But - I still enjoy VoxATC - it seems (to me) to be a big improvement over v 5.I wait - (like the rest of us who don't use VATSIM or IVAO) for Radar Contact v 5. Should be amazing. He writes great stuff!!!Have a great night, all. The old 'Bird is off to bed. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Cras 6]

RC4 hands down. However there is a lot i don't like about RC4 that i really am hoping will be eliminated in RC5 because what i don't like about RC4 is overshadowed by what i like.

I too am looking forward to RC5, but so far it has been a very long wait, with little to know updates to even keep the image that it is still under development.

[Alaaar 34]

Helloall Ido apologize for so many questions and because I don’t have any experience withany ATC program, I even had to Google the names you mentioned above, and sinceI am depending on FSX ATC alone which as you know missing a lot of interestingoptions like SIDs and STARS and any inflight procedure, so I was wondering ifany of the mentioned programs does the following:“Basedon the fact that you already loaded a basic FSX plan, you are at the gate, theflight plan loaded does not include SIDsor STARs !”1. Willyou be able to select a runway for departure and a SID (from a FSX menu forexample) and the ATC will guide you through that?2. Willyou get a warring by ATC for any retractions (speed, altitude) during SIDs3. Afterdeparture will you get any instructions regarding marinating altitude (temporally)or change course if needed or speeds?4. Duringcruise phase will you request of increase/decrease altitude be rejected?5. Willyou be able to select a STAR before arrival different than the one chosenbefore (due to change in weather)?6. Willyou be instructed of appropriate speed upon arrival or to get a warning for inappropriatespeed or altitude?7. Willyou still see plans landing at the same time feet away from you?8. Willyou be able to select the gate # to park?Sorry for so many questions and Ireally appreciate your informationBest regards

[GSalden 4,655]

Here is what I wrote in the VoxATC forum, I can't compare it to RC4 but I tested both PFE and VoxATC, VoxATC was a clear winner for.I advise you looking into VoxATC as well.I tried PFE about 2 months ago when I was reviewing what product I should go for to replace the FSX ATCit is far worse then VoxATC on few notes that broke me from using it (RC I have not tried).1) you must file a SID/STAR in your flight plan (you loose the dynamic of an ATC assigning you one)2) you need to file a dedicated PFE flight plan, unlike VoxATC that reads your FSX flight plan, which I liked since I use vroute.info Premium and I can easily export the flight plan to FSX and just import it before I fly3 )it doesn't use any AIRAC data4) you loose granularity of voices packs (e.g. IVONA,AT&T) you could add and improve your ATC, you are stuck with what they got , even though they have many accents, yet I still find it hard to understand and a bit robotic IMO5) and the worse part is that it doesn't control AI traffic , only controls you taking in consideration other traffic, you hear the AI traffic talk to the MSFS ATC in the background (hated it, it's like having two ATCs - one for you and the other for AI)6) I don't remember if it is PFE or RC4, but one of them doesn't control Ground , i.e. No Taxi to/from gate to/from the RW.VoxATC was the true winner for me (I even haven't waited for the trail to run out and I got it on the 4th day as I was so happy with it compared to PFE, RC don't have trail versions, or at least I couldn't find any)VoxATC is not a perfect one, but it is sure provided me almost everything I was looking for.I am very happy I went with VoxATC for the following reasons (I mainly do IFR flight, VFR flights have other options that I did not mention here as I haven't tested them)1) VoxATC fully supports and fully controls UT2 AI traffic which I own (or any other BGL AI traffic based) - PFE does not do that.2) It reads the standard FSX flight plan (which most of flight plan tools out there Free or not support exporting to that format)3) you don't need to load a flight plan to the VoxATC, nothing. all I need to do is load the flight plan in FSX as you would do if you would use the regular FSX ATC (VoxATC would read it automatically)4) It fully support REX or any other weather program like ASE you got (as it reads the actual weather that is in the FSX regardless on how it got there) - PFE/RC4 would support them as well.5) ATIS is replaced by the VoxATC (others also do it I guess)6) VoxATC fully utilizes the AIRAC in route & SID/STAR/Approach, etc (it uses the LEVEL-D AIRAC Installation Pack),VoxATC as apposed to PFE & RC does use Navigraph Airac cycle (AIRAC) and could be updated like any other AIRAC product (very important)7) it support Holding, route divination to avaiod traffic or weather and fist officer to handle COMMs (I personally disabled the two later ones)8) you don't need to pick or file in the flight plan any SID/STAR as the VoxATC would know to assign you one based on the RW in use and the flight plan (that really charmed me),you do however have an option picking your own SID/STAR if you wish so, you could also ask the VoxATC to vector you to final if you don't want to use a SID/STAR, or request from the ATC NDB / VORDME /RNAV,etc approachby published procedures (based on the AIRAC you installed for VoxATC).9) VoxATC is very accurate and knows when to start your decent (pretty much at the same time I see the T/D on ND), same for ascend. it also follows ALT/Speed Restrictions based on the AIRAC. 10) many would say that Voice recognition (talking to the ATC) is far more realistic then pressing buttons on the Menu, personal for me it was not one of my set objectives for an FSX ATC replacement program.11) You can add 3rd party TTS Voices e.g. AT&T, IVONA, NeoSpeach (Any TTS SAPI5 voice pack would do) and assigned them either to the ATC controller or the AI traffic being controlled by VoATC or both.12) you can D/L a fully functional VoxATC for 7 days trail.13) *Disadvantage* VoxATC appears to be a bit more expensive then other ATC(s) programs on the market (e.g. PFE/RC4)I personally looked for a more realistic ATC then FSX ATC, rather talking to it or pressing a button on the ATC menu.

Can you tell me if it possible to add country based ATC chatter to VoxATC ?And if it would work with addon aircraft like PMDG and CS, as twith them you load a FSX flightplan and then manually add the departure rw, sids, stars and transitions. I tried to get more info form the VoxATC site, but most menues are not accesable.

[bblackkbirdd 6]

Good morning, from beautiful Southern NH, USA!!! It's Ray (Blackbird)..........spectacular day here!I I just wanted to reply to Alaa and Gerard.......but first - my disclaimer: I am NOT a real-world pilot, so there are aspects of flying of which I am unaware - sorry. (ie - the direct application of SIDs / STARs) and many other things!Alaaar - this is what I've found - I build my flight plan in FS Build (amazing program, IMHO), I keep the SIDs and STARs it recommends, then export the flightplan to my different aircraft, which is then available right in the aircraft as a CO-route. (company route?)Anyway, the SIDs and STARs seem to be there in the flightplan - I don't know if you can adjust them during flight - I know that VoxATC has done some "tweaking" to same - it's in the main VoxATC start menu - called SID & STAR setup and SID & STAR Wizard. I have not yet messed with either one, so I can't tell you anything useful - sorry. I am not qualified to comment on many of the other questions you asked about the program.Gerard - my "guess" is that the VoxATC UK version would have European procedures and expressions - using the word "decimal" instead of "point" on radio frequencies. As far as accents - ATT voices now come in different accents (and languages). Also, a couple of the free VoxPOP voices are different accents. (I believe Scottish and Indian).Oh, one more thing I DO know - you can use VoxATC with ANY addon aircraft - you can let it add itself to the panel, or you can do it manually (very easy). It reads the flightplan, whether it's one you created in FSX (FS9), or any other program.Well, fellas - I'm off - no, not to fly (I wish!) - I must go food shopping with the wife (I go, so I can get stuff I want...... You know.....guy food - sausage, beer, etc.. :( All best, Ray Landolt ('Bird)

[Akila 39]

1. Can you tell me if it possible to add country based ATC chatter to VoxATC ?2. And if it would work with addon aircraft like PMDG and CS, as twith them you load a FSX flightplan and then manually add the departure rw, sids, stars and transitions. 3. I tried to get more info form the VoxATC site, but most menues are not accesable.

1. Not that I am aware of.2. it works with my PMDG 747, the VoxATC has an Indexer process that finds all your airplanes installed and gives you the optionto integrate the VoxATC into the plane panel, I have yet found any aircraft model Addon that it doesn't work with, it worked for me on all of them, no issues. RW in Use, SID is assigned to use by ATC during clearance,STAR is assigned to you by ATC (Control/Approach) close to the Star transition. you could however file a specific RW , SID/STAR to use and that would be done with VoxATC own flight plan wizard if you chose to use.Another way is that during flight you could request a different RW/Approach and it would be granted by ATC (NDB/RNAM/VORDME,Visual,etc) 3. you can download the manual guide from the site and also the program itself, for any other questions on the product, you can contact the support (published at the site) - done it number of times during my Evaluation period, very helpful they were or visit the Forum athttp://forum.avsim.n...-support-forum/

[Akila 39]

“Basedon the fact that you already loaded a basic FSX plan, you are at the gate, theflight plan loaded does not include SIDsor STARs !”

true , it doesn't but VoxATC reads your entire flight plan an assigns you a SID/STAR based on the flight plan and RW in use (or you could file it manually if you wish via the SID/ STAR flight plan wizard).don't forget , VoxATC has the AIRAC installed and knows what to assign you based on the way points in your flight plan and RW in use, not based on where you at the ground/gate, as your ground positions is irrelevant to your flight pattern/route. remember it is clearance that assigns you the SID before even you contact Ground for Taxi.as a rule of thumb in aviation a SID/STAR is defined usually by the RW in use and the way point you approaching to/from.VoxATC is smart enough to calculate this.

1. Willyou be able to select a runway for departure and a SID (from a FSX menu forexample) and the ATC will guide you through that?

not that I am aware of from the FSX flight plan (fsx menu is no longer in use when having VoxATC installed, you use VoxATC menu instead - same idea, very similar to the FSX ATC menu though), but you could file your desired RWvia VoxATC and SID/STAR if you wish not to follow ATIS RW in use (based on weather,etc)

2. Willyou get a warring by ATC for any retractions (speed, altitude) during SIDs

I assume so as I got yelled at once by the ATC (VoxATC) to reduce speed to 250 when I was still climbing to 6000 and didn't pay attention to my speed.

3. Afterdeparture will you get any instructions regarding marinating altitude (temporally)or change course if needed or speeds?

yes (in some cases) and I think it's also configurable in VoxATC settings rather to do that or not (e.g. deviate you due to heavy air traffic in your flight plan)

4. Duringcruise phase will you request of increase/decrease altitude be rejected?

never got rejected by VoxATC when I requested, but I don't know if it is program like that in VoxATC not to reject your requests or it just happenedto be that there was no restrictions or AI traffic at the same altitude I requested. I haven't requested altitude change that much , so I can't tell you for sure.

5. Willyou be able to select a STAR before arrival different than the one chosenbefore (due to change in weather)?

the STAR would be assigned to you pretty much close to the approach, hence weather of the destination airport is taken under considuration,but you could always request a different approach by procedure and follow the charts for that approach (NDB/RNAV/Full ILS/VORDME, Visual, etc and the RW of your selection)in addition to "in flight" Approach change request , you could file your own SID/STAR using VoxATC SID/STAR/Flight plan Wizard if you wish.

6. Willyou be instructed of appropriate speed upon arrival or to get a warning for inappropriatespeed or altitude?

don't know , I never put it to the test. i never violated the VoxATC instruction yet during approach.

7. Willyou still see plans landing at the same time feet away from you?

if you mean Runway incursion, not that I have seen

8. Willyou be able to select the gate # to park?

not that I am aware of, but maybe using the Flight plan wizard you could, I never used it as I love the dynamic of being assignedstuff by ATC based on his calculations of weather, traffic, etc (very close to real life)I hope that was informational enough

[bblackkbirdd 6]

Hi, Akila - thanks for all the info you provided........even though the questions were not mine, I always learn interesting things here on the Forums. (ie - I didn't know that there is a Forum on AVSIM for VoxATC). Excellent! I'll have to check that out!All best, Ray Landolt