FS9. FSX & P3D CTD Guide - NEW!
FSX / P3D Configuration Guide - UPDATED!
Simulation's Premier Resource!
AVSIM is a free service to the flight and simulation communities. Please help us keep it that way. Donate what you can today! Thank you for your support!
ORBX 33% off saleStarts tomorrow
255 replies to this topic
Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:14 PM
Quite the lesson for me to experience once again. It seems as humans we don't really understand and appreciate the truly good things we have, like loyal friends and family, until we lose them by neglect or abuse. I am tempted to become a cynic, but won't, because I don't want to become what I dislike, so grace (unmerited favour) must be extended to all who need it, whether received back or not.Kind regards,
Please donate today!
Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:22 PM
The further point is this: they had every right, technically speaking, to run their sale. It's just that the sale shows poor understanding of customer psychology and poor management of customer relations. Here's the problem - in November, they were aggressive in promoting the pre-pay discount for new products, the argument being, buy now on pre-pay before the prices go up. There were an unprecendented number of new products on offer. So even at the discount price, people shelled out an awful lot of money to pre-pay. And now to turn around and offer a much deeper discount and say, well, sorry, that's the way commerce is - no, it isn't. That's the way commerce is when you don't understand or value relationships.His analogy about his X-Box purchase is off target. Yes, we all understand that products go on sale after Christmas. But we didn't understand that the argument for the pre-pay discount - buy now at lower prices, because after release they'll go higher - was going to be invalidated a couple of weeks later. It may not, technically, be a broken promise - but it comes close. It certainly involves changing the value proposition on the fly. And it involves telling longstanding customers - the most loyal ones, who are most likely to prepay - that we're not going to offer you any lasting advantage, whatever we might have told you before.BTW, I make my living advising companies about how to manage their reputations. I hope that if John reads this, he'll take it as professional commentary and not just the complaint of one of those annoying people who buy software products...
Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:26 PM
Another +1And a +1 John Venema's response...Once I waited on Orbx and got the whole FTX Australia SP3 DVD for like $50 Aussie... sweetness.This time around I pre-paid New Zealand and bought US CRM full price... didn't really care so much waiting for NZSI and reasoning for US CRM was Jeff Williams Bush Pilot Brushup Plan. The Frank Church - River of No Return Wilderness Run was "sweetness" too.I'm a big boy... "both" times I knew what I was doing...I am supposed to be mad at "them" for not telling me precisely when to wait and when to buy?
I've been waiting for this sale to get the central Rockies. I dn't understand the hate and discontent...certainly a company chasing the Christmas dollars with a big post-Christmas sale isn't new...in fact it isn't even new for Orbx products. As always, if ya gotta have it RIGHT NOW you're going to pay a premium over the price at the next sale...and there will be a next sale.Good things come to those who wait...
Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:31 PM
Wow!! I'm very surprised and quite frankly Shocked at John's reaction to his loyal customers who give their money 2 months in advance for his products without question.I'm affraid I'll have to reconsider doing buisness with someone who calls his customers "Selfish"
Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:41 PM
I was expecting a sale, but like many, I had no idea that everything would be on sale the day after Christmas. It's great that so many buyers will be able to take advantage of the sale. But, the loyal customer who took the time to buy in advance and help support the development process, have to question that decision. Was it really worth it? If I look at it from the "glass half full", it actually benefits everyone.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:46 PM
Well, I was already beginning to cut back because I can't afford the outlay all at once for the whole stream of products... and because the most recent products (like Anacortes) are getting to be quite a burden on my not-terrible system. This makes me even less inclined to buy, and I think I'm going to sit on cash instead of shelling it out to realize a discount. Maybe I'll do Jefferson County, maybe none at all.And Great Ozzie - you can be mad or grateful as you choose. Doesn't matter to me how you react, or to you how I react, and that's fine. But my complaint isn't about their telling me when and where to buy... it's about offering me an INDUCEMENT to buy, based on the promise of a lasting price increase to follow the pre-release period - and then wiping out that increase and actually offering a deeper discount two weeks later.I have no problem when products go on sale six months after I buy them. And I have no problem with products that go from full price to a discount after Christmas. I have a problem with products that go from "buy now at 15 percent off, it's a time-limited offer before we go to full price" and "oh, sorry, we're now at 33 percent off two weeks later, that's commerce, you ingrate."They get to do what they do, which is set prices. And I get to do what I do, which is to back away from ORBX. Capitalism at its finest, yes?Oh, and as usual in these situations, the initial decision does some damage - but it's the communications and general posture of the company after the complaints start that does the lasting harm.If I was John, I'd be acknowleding the perception of harm and offering some kind of compensation to the pre-pays - discounts off some future product, for example. It's the "shut up and take it" response that's the real cause of damage.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:16 PM
Hi Alan,I guess I do not invest this kind of emotion in my purchases. If I see something that does raise an emotional response, I take it as a "lesson learned" and move on. I do not look to blame anyone but myself. There is no written guarantee re: an "Inducement". The only "inducement" is I have it when it comes out. When it goes on sale is not in some contract; written, perceived or otherwise.I am not here to ensure the success or demise of any company. They produce... I buy if I see fit. It is fairly straightforward in my opinion.Quite frankly, I am (somewhat) shocked to see posts like the Phantom88:
And Great Ozzie - you can be mad or grateful as you choose.
My response to that is, "What??? Whose money are you spending???"I know I work hard enough for my money that I half-want to do the "Obi-wan Kenobi" hand wave and say to him, "You don't want to give your money two months in advance for their products (without question)... you want to go home and rethink your life." If I want to be "loyal", I'll wait for their IPO and buy their stock. John admitted a problem with the "pre-release" and made a decision to keep that from happening again. Plenty good enough for me... his explanation was precisely to the point. I personally saw nothing wrong with it other than "this is business, we all operate this way as consumers... why do you not understand this?".To me, there is this attitude with many, "We buy your products and keep you in business... therefore as 'loyal' customers you owe us." And I think that kind of thinking is upside-down and/or backwards...-Rob
Shocked at John's reaction to his loyal customers who give their money 2 months in advance for his products without question
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:33 PM
Perhaps you are right Rob, it is foolish to invest anything more than money in a business or consumer purchase; loyalty and expectation of shared friendship and trust is misplaced and worthy only of public contempt and dishonour. I now understand why you feel how you feel, for as you so strongly indicated, you simply deal in the first, and not the latter. Certainly you have a lot less to lose than some of the rest of us, who might have invested our emotions as a bit of our hearts, as well as our funds. Now that you and the others who agree with you have been proven right all along, that it was not simply a mistake or misunderstanding on ORBX's part, but a cold calculated move meant to attract the otherwise disinterested, we will see if what goes around comes around. I hope you enjoy your sceneries as much as many of ORBX's long term adherants have, even though apparently yours may be purchased for much different reasons and motives than ours ever were.Who cares? No one. Right? Right!Kind regards,
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:38 PM
Very well said Steve....
Perhaps you are right Rob, it is foolish to invest anything more than money in a business or consumer purchase; loyalty and expectation of shared friendship and trust is misplaced and worthy only of public contempt and dishonour. I understand why you feel how you feel, for as you so strongly indicated, you simply deal in the first, and not the latter. Certainly you have a lot less to lose than the rest of us, who might have invested our emotions as a bit of our hearts, as well as our funds. Now that you and the others who agree with you have been proven right all along, that it was not simply a mistake or misunderstanding on ORBX's part, but a cold calculated move meant to attract the otherwise disinterested, we will see if what goes around comes around. I hope you enjoy your sceneries as much as many of ORBX's long term adherants have, even though apparently yours may be purchased for much different reasons and motives than ours ever were.Kind regards,
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:40 PM
Well, guys I really don't understand why you couldn't guess there would be a sale. I really didn't care if it was an after Christmas sale or a year end sale. I am just a little disappointed that it is not 40% off. I seem to remember the last time I bought Orbx software it was 40% off.I was fully expecting it and actually was not surprise at all when I saw the big banner today. Today is tomorrow there, btw, so the sale is already in progress. I just bought two areas and got one free. That is just another way of saying 1/3 off.Heck, I got 50% off the two Nemeth helicopters 3 or 4 days ago, and I got 25% off the fantastic Aerosoft OV-10 Bronco with lots more to be added in January for free and now I just picked up Central and Northern Mountains and got the New Zealand South Island for nothing additional. Good way to look at it.I bet you the next sale you see from Orbx will not be very far out and it will be either 40% off or 50% off. Any takers.I remember last year we took the family on a Christmas cruise and the hour or two before we left for Texas, I bought everthing in the IRIS shop for $5.00 each. I think it was 10 add ons, as I already had a few. Two of them were actually a good deal for me and I fly them often. The others are still zipped up. Sometimes I get carried away with a good sale.I only bought the 3 area scenery packages from Orbx today, I will save my small airport list for a better sale.Happy Ray,
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:49 PM
I do not understand at all what you are saying Stephen...What was your motive or reasoning for purchasing any of the Orbx products?Mine was to enhance my enjoyment of FSX (which it has done in spades)... you are saying I should have some sense loyalty and/or of shared friendship with the people at Orbx? I am some sort of inferior customer because I look at Orbx as a company that I do consumer business with?Edit: I do not, btw, think you (and those that share your feelings) are to be held in contempt or looked upon like some knucklehead... how you feel is how you feel... I just don't get it.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:50 PM
Money make some people do funny things... But being the best do not give anybody the right to rip people off. I can understand sale on older items but man, scenery that has just been released a day or two ago..and comparing it to a shop around the corner who sell clothes with whom you have NO relationship whatsoever (Not many who know the store owner around the corner having boxing day sales)This FSX scenery development has a very serious "relationship" side to it that other types of businesses do not have. This is personal.a good scenery developer can be in the same class as what i call "MY doctor", "MY attorney", "MY preacher" or "MY scenery developer"ORBX obviously do not understand sound business principles and the intimate relationship to "THEIR" customers.. Never have and NEVER will.I have seen people raving about ORBX scenery (yeah I still think they the best, even though their controlling methods stink) and I have seen people becomming passionate about the scenery (JUST look at their screen shot forum) and then to get a backhand like this is truelly ungrateful for these peoples continues support.When ORBX needed to boost their cashflow it was these same customers who have been taking out their hard earned cash and splashed it out to help and support ORBX and then ORBX turn around to bite the hand that was feeding it when it needed to be fed. Nah not a good business principle...However ORBX are still by far the leaders in scenery development and even I who do not share the same fire with them, will continue to purchase their products.. I am just so glad I have already so much that it can keep me so busy I can really wait very long to make a purchase and I have been waiting for this sale for long, so as I already said, I definitely will pick up a few airports.It is not worth the money to get bragging rights to be some of the first.. Good things come to those that willing to wait a bit.Thanks to the indivual brilliant developers over at ORBX, I love your scenery to bits, but the way ORBX is being run and the way they try and control people stinks.HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY new year, I am so going to enjoy my new "purchases"..
Yes, he has no hesitation slashing and injuring friends and foes alike. Perhaps he doesn't know the difference. Too bad, still the best products though, even if some of the rest needs some work.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:51 PM
And that, is the nub of this problem.I do a lot of work with organizations in the field of crisis communications and it is a truism that more damage to a firm's business and reputation is caused by inadequate, insensitive, and dismissive customer communications than the original problem that touched everything off.There is indeed a loyalty that builds in long term customers and it needs constant respect because once it has been violated through an insensitive corporate response then future income from those loyalists dry up.It is much much harder for a company to find new customers than to maintain existing ones.I have nothing to say on whether ORBX made a poor business move but its response to its aggrieved customers, whether they were in fact wronged or not, was in my view insensitive and needlessly insulting toward what look to be their best long term customers.
it's the communications and general posture of the company after the complaints start that does the lasting harm.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:53 PM
Ray I think you're missing the point. For example...I pre paid for PAKT on October 31st with the promise of a "deal" of 15% off before it goes for full price. A "deal" for my loyalty. PAKT was released on December 23rd at full price, and now only a few days later, it is on sale (December 27th) for 33% off.I feel like a sucker for giving them my money so early and in all honesty I am a sucker for doing this.If you were running a business how would you react to a customer that feels this way?
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:53 PM
Yip I also suspect another sale not tooo distant in the future.. happened last year also, so dont be suprised..!! I also have lined up a few smaller/ older airports for the next round...
I bet you the next sale you see from Orbx will not be very far out and it will be either 40% off or 50% off. Any takers......I only bought the 3 area scenery packages from Orbx today, I will save my small airport list for a better sale.Happy Ray,
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:55 PM
"Caveat empetor" I think is the latin phrase?Orbx and John Venema will have to work for my cash from now on.....as already stated, clearly you are better off waiting for a sale than putting faith in these guys.None of this would have been a problem if the 8 recent pre-pay items had not been included (as usual).I only purchased one as well.....if I had gone for all of them I would be royally ######!As it is, I got to "enjoy" 0S9 a whole 2 days before the 33% discountOf course, the threads on the FTX forum are now locked.....but Orbx should understand there ARE consequences to actions and reactions.....especially in the retail world with a limited customer base.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:58 PM
Well "Great Ozzie" If you cannot see the lack of understanding in Johns comments to his customers by calling them "Selfish"and then procceeding to lock the thread,Then I'm affraid I won't be of much help to you.This is a Business PR move dissaster in a classic sense.I'm just glad it's not my business.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:07 PM
This is exactly how I feel Glenn... to me this is how the "market" should work.One question... what do you mean by "putting faith" in them?A company makes a product, then I, as a consumer, decide whether or not to "invest" my hard earned dollars into that product. They should have to work for my cash. I cannot afford to give "charity dollars" to them or subsidize their company by making a certain amount of purchases. If they want to be subsidized by me, then I wait for the IPO.Again... this is how I see a business / consumer relationship... and Patrick... I think John's comments reflect that of a business owner.-Rob
"Caveat empetor" I think is the latin phrase?Orbx and John Venema will have to work for my cash from now on.....as already stated, clearly you are better off waiting for a sale than putting faith in these guys.