21 replies to this topic

[Kosta]

I got something really strange happen yesterday.As maybe some of you know, I got really powerful sub in my room - the one that produces whatever I give it (up to some 110db +/-3db linear in ranges from 19hz up) - http://www.genelec.com/7070a/specs/The sub is located just behind the computer, membrane is about 1m from the computer.Yesterday I played Wag the Dog by Mark Knopfler, and some tracks have some really really powerful bass guitar lines. It was quite loud, and I was just waiting for the bass to kick in in the track, and after couple of seconds of bass playing, my computer froze.It never froze since I got it.I also don't think I ever played that track so loud.It definitely felt like it was because of the bass. One tone came and it just froze, not a peep out of the computer. Restarted. All OK.No, I didn't try it again. :Shocked:Could it be a specific frequency of the bass or the magnetic disturbance from the bass cone making the computer freeze?

[dazz]

Did it store a crash dump?

[Kosta]

It wasn't a blue screen.But, I can't answer since I don't know what to look for?EDIT: But I'd guess if this is set, then for sure not...  Clipboard01.jpg   30.54K   2 downloads

[ppo]

That's interesting. It would have to be tested again to verify the connection (maybe?).A pure guess on my part is that I know that woofers can produce some very powerful low frequencies.And that could influence some mechanical parts in your PC. What parts are"moving" in a PC? Fans and Hard drives.Maybe the hard drive? The disks spinning, the heads moving? Maybe.On the other hand, the magnetic current passing in the coil at that moment might produce a strong magnetic field but then woofers aren't magnetically shielded are they?Pierre

[Kosta]

I would think of a 2000€ studio monitoring subwoofer to be very well shielded, yes.It's a sub for a studio use, so basically it shouldn't cause such thing to happen. There are computers in studios too. Though probably not so close to the sub as in my scenario.I would hardly believe that I can achieve it again, since it was probably the moment where things played well together for it to happen.My best guess is the soundwave pressure causing the problem. I don't think it was magnetic disturbance with this sub.I might try it out again with the same track some time tomorrow, when everyone is up or away :Thinking:

[superglide17]

I think the low freq vibes could definitely bounce/vibrate the heads on your HDD. Especially since it is only 1 m from your rig.

[dazz]

Well, without a page file you don't get to store/check crash dumps :rollseyes: Probably you didn't see the blue screen because you have Win set to automatically restart and write no debugging info. You would need to set that to store minidumps or something like that, but again, you'll need to enable the page file. Who knows, the crash might even be related to the absence of a page file... a shot in the dark, I know, but still.You could run driver verifier on the audio driver to see if you can replicate the crash and pinpoint the culprit

[Kosta]

Dario, Win didn't restart. I had to restart it. It froze, like, nothing can be moved, nothing can be typed, I still see the screen though. Nothing moving on the screen.I then had to press a button +6sec and that turned it off.So no crashdump would be useful in this case.I don't believe that this is due to no paging file - that would be a first freeze ever because of that then.Hmmm.... vibrations causing HDD heads to move... that sounds to me like the most plausible explanation.EDIT:http://www.mp3car.co...-to-reboot.htmlSeems like it's possible."If the harddrive were to be the culprit, it should freeze. For example, in Toshiba notebooks when excessive acceleration in any direction or excessive rapid changes in acceleration (vibration), the harddrive spin down. The computer can function just fine without the hard drive. However if it was in the middle of a read/write cycle, it would freeze or BSOD."

[dazz]

Yeah, I don't think it's the lack of a page file, or have a reason to believe it is, but you know what I think about disabling it. Who knows, if it happens again it may want to BSOD and a crash dump would most definitely help.Is there anything in the event viewer apart of the typical generic "unproper shutdown" log?Have you tried replicating the issue? if it's not easily repeatable only thing you can do that I know is to set your system (temporarily?) to save those crash dumps in case it crashes.Again, if you suspect your audio driver is at fault, you can easily replicate it using Driver Verifier (built in Win 7 feature) to stress the driver.Obviously if a hardware failure caused by the soundwaves triggered the freeze, that's not going to help.

[Kosta]

I know your opinion on disabling swap file :)In the Event Manager, the only thing is a Kernel-Power. The usual thing when something like this happens.I will repeat the situation - although I move the sub but more away now, I can still slide it back - it's a 50KG thing, so not just an easiest thing to move around.To me, it was only interesting if soundwaves can actually make computer crash - I was looking for that. More than looking if I have something faulty on my system - becasue I know I don't :)

[Free Spirit]

KostaI guess that you have seen this: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Sonic_weapon and this http://crab.wordpres...pt2-infrasound/I seem to recall somewhile ago that the French Army were developing a sonic weapon that could destroy a concrete wall at a fair distance away. Maybe.In your case it could have been a mixture of sound and vibration and a particualr harmonic or series played havoc with something on your computer as Dazz suggested something like the HDD.Watch out for brain freeze.PeterH

[Kosta]

Mmm, very interesting. I remember reading about these weapons before. But totally forgot about it.Well, I guess my question has been answered positively. Good to know.

[w6kd]

A one-time glitch like this is just as likely to be the result of a queertron running loose in your system as any of the more exotic explanations here.If audio-frequency vibes were the culprit, I'd expect something more permanent in the way of damage to the head/platter on the HDD.And you'd be surprised how little shielding exists (magnetic, RF etc) in lots of high-end electronics.  Don't assume that the  2000 euro price tag guarantees a good magnetic shield...it very well may not.That said, I still think a random queertron got loose, as is known to happen, particularly in high perf overclocked systems.

[Kosta]

Jahman and Bob, thanks for your insights.I also think it could have been both, and I honestly hope that it didn't cause any permenent damage to the heads or platters, as I have been playing loud music (more bass than music itself) for a long time, I enjoy that very much.I also hope that was an one time glitch...

[Barnstormer1]

Maybe you could send a suggest to Myth Buster to test your theory! :Idea:

[Kosta]

No need - I think that video of yelling at disks proves everything.

[w6kd]

Kosta, on 04 February 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

Jahman and Bob, thanks for your insights.I also think it could have been both, and I honestly hope that it didn't cause any permenent damage to the heads or platters, as I have been playing loud music (more bass than music itself) for a long time, I enjoy that very much.I also hope that was an one time glitch...

If you're playing music loud enough to bounce the heads on your computer's HDD, I'm wondering how much damage you're doing to your hearing.  I have a number of friends my age (early 50s) starting to see the real downside of repeated excessive noise exposure (aircraft engines, shooting, and/or loud music).Just a friendly word of caution.  :wink:

[SpiritFlyer]

Pardon, what did you say? Please speak up I can't hear you! :unsure:

[Kosta]

Yes, I know a lot about the loud music and hearing. I have couple of years of audio engineering behind me. The most dangerous thing is loud music for prolonged period of time (6hrs+). I usually never do it longer than 5-10 minutes. Sometimes maybe enjoying for half an hour, but that isn't as long as it was the one song. The same applies to headphones.Officialy I think permanent 8hrs at 80dB with headphones will pretty much cause an ear damage.But all that aside: I have worse hearing on the left side than on the right. And I know having that since I was a kid, way before I had some music setups or loudspeakers. Even headphones. When testing very very quiet tones in the headphones from 3000hz and above, I hear nothing on my left ear. Need it just a bit louder (not much). Right ear is good. I also did a test. My doctor said it's like it is, can't change that, but it's not a huge downside. I still hear very well.And don't get it wrong - I don't have this setup to permanently play loud music (it can do it, but it's not its main use). The point of it is the sub playing very deep basses even when very very quiet. Not something much of the audio setups can achieve.It's due to huge membrane (250mm woofer) and a huge centrifugal box with a bass reflex tube going in spiral direction.Ah. Let's see. Who knows what 50s is going to bring...

[Barnstormer1]

SpiritFlyer, on 05 February 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

Pardon, what did you say? Please speak up I can't hear you! :unsure:

That is selective hearing :)