Tom, please. is it time yet?

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

I, and many others, come to the Avsim forum for enjoyment, to share our enthusiasm over a common hobby, for fun. I am sure that is the reason you started all of this in the first place.Unfortunately, there are many different types of people in the world, and not all get pleasure from being positive, from finding the good things in life, from fun. Many of them, far too many, get their enjoyment from being rude, making hateful remarks, ruining it for those of us who want to have fun in a positive and agreeable way. They bring negativity and hate into the community, all under the banner of free speech and their right to present the opposite point of view.I certainly don't advocate suppression of discussion, but there are lines to be drawn, and principles to be defended. It seems that we are once again at the same point as 6 years ago when many forum users reviled and disparaged FS X and promised to never leave FS 9. Not surprisingly, many of the most rude people in this forum making their hateful comments about Flight and promising to never leave FS X are the very same who spoke so rudely about it 6 years ago.Then, the moderators created an FS 9 forum so that the FS X forum could return to civil and pleasant discussion, both positive and negative, of that sim. Obviously, you will not create a "Hate" forum where so many of the people in this forum could go, but is there any way at all to start clearing the air, to begin to make way for those of us who will use and enjoy Microsoft Flight, and who do not want the haters to rain on our parade?Please, Tom, is it time to do something? As usual, I trust completely in you and your judgment, as you have always done what is best for Avsim.As for the negative posters, who will no doubt take this opportunity to once again make their views known, please be aware that I have added most of you to my Ignore preferences. This is a very handy feature of modern forum software, it is a personal "ban" feature. I would prefer not to do this, since I believe in the concept of community and that all view points have the right to be expressed. But, not spite, hate, rudeness, and lack of common courtesy.This means that whatever you post in response to this thread - I will not see it. Never. Nor will I see any of your posts in any other Avsim forum.I invite you to add me to your Ignore preferences as well. You will be doing me a favor, since we do not at all share the same attitudes towards life, towards enjoyment of our hobby, towards Avsim.Thank you, Tom, and thanks to all who are open minded, who look forward to the evolution of our hobby, and to a great new software title from Microsoft that reaffirms its commitment to the flight genre.Best regards.Luis

Edited February 12, 2012 by LuisFelizTirado

[Dillon 2,197]

I'll personally make an effort to refrain from anymore overly negative comments about Flight until it's released and even then limit my comments to only personal observations. It's too close to release dates where all speculation needs to be done away with. I'll censor myself.The larger point of censoring this forum to a point no one can say anything objective about a product only happy nice things doesn't give a constructive picture of the product or how people feel. Censoring is what Microsoft is now doing on Facebook and Youtube. People need a place where they can get real information about a product. Your asking that if anyone can't post nice comments about Flight they shouldn't be able to post here at all or it's viewed as overly negative because it opposes your view. I hope that doesn't happen as we need a place for down to earth discussions about products, explore frustrations, and hopefully appeal to developers of whatever product to make much needed changes. I don't advocate personally sticking heads in the sand by blocking certain users because you don't agree with their views, where has that ever got anybody? We all know the Flight team reads these posts and who knows there may have been something here in all the frustration that the new team didn't think of. Being nice and phony about something doesn't help just the same as beating a dead horse doesn't help. We need to be constructive, helpful, throw out ideas, be objective and try to stay positive even when the situation looks bleak which is something I need to work on myself. In my last thread here I didn't just throw out critisizem I offered up something that could potentually be in a future DLC (who knows). Others have stated the team needs to rethink it's closed stance on freeware/payware development. These are valid things that shouldn't be closed out of the debate just because some among us want to accept whatever's dished out.So I'll tip my hat and try to be more positive and see what comes in the next six months. I'm still very frustrated with the direction, prices of DLC content, and vision of Flight but I've said more than enough on the subject.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Dillon

[Mikrco 0]

Well said Luis, and thanks for the heads up on the "ban" feature. I'll be putting that to good use as well.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Mikrco

[OzWhitey 3,353]

Well said, Dillon.As someone currently expressing 'pro flight' views, I must say I would prefer that the 'critical of flight' comments not be censored. If posters are making personal attacks, ok that's reasonable to moderate. But I don't think we all need to be in the 'Flight fan club'. We're here to discuss, passionately but reasonably, the good with the bad.

[Guest jahman]

The community is divided because we now have a product that divides the community!We who enjoy large aircraft, long distance simming, while we still get the benefit of FSX (of course) are not longer getting the benefit of MS R&D and the possibility of an improved simulator for the type of simming we like to do.Me, I'm truly glad folks that only enjoy small GA aircraft simming in restricted locales will get a new simulator. What I don't appreciate is being left behind.And generally speaking I'm behind Dillon 100% on letting folks argue their positions for as long as it takes, as long as the discussion is civilized. Perhaps a specialized forum can be created for these discussions so the main Flight forum is kept free and clear and only for Flight! facts and advice.This is what I would consider constructive thinking. I'm not at all in favor of advocating folks start banning each other like Luiz does (and I won't ban him evem if he decides to ban me), just because they can't agree on the same point of view.Cheers,- jahman.

Edited February 12, 2012 by jahman

[xplanery 250]

Criticizing should be ok as long as it has no personal attacks and does not become all too negative, troll like.

[tfm 188]

May I summarise?Some think they'll like it on release, others think they'll like it as it matures, others think they'll dislike it throughout its lifecycle, but nobody knows because it hasn't been released yet and even if it had been released nobody knows what might be added in time through DLC or otherwise. Additionally, some are cross with MS because of various reasons which others think do not withstand scrutiny.Basically, it's too late to say anything new about the prospect of Flight because it's all been said already (at least once and with differing degrees of moderation), and too soon to say anything about the fact of Flight because it hasn't been released. Come to think of it, there has been no point to any of this to-ing and fro-ing since about 5th January. So what on earth am I doing hitting "Post"? Where's the undo button ...Tim

[Marith 2]

Whilst I agree that overly negative rants and personal attacks against positive posters should be stopped I do not believe that comments negative to Flight should be banned as long as they are constructive to the discussion.Similarly I do not think there should be over the top positive rants (especially before release date) or personal attacks against the people who do not hold MS Flight up on a pedestal.We don't live in happy, happy Teletubby land and we don't live in China or Iran where you're not allowed to oppose the political view held by the leaders.Extreme points of view from both sides just turns these forums into the mess we've been seeing the last several weeks, but a discussion isn't a healthy one if it's forced to be one-sided.Maybe, however, a seperate forum could be set up called "MS Fight" lol, where everyone from both sides could be let loose, no arguments barred, and might be kinda fun :(.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Marith

[dighost 25]

As for the negative posters, who will no doubt take this opportunity to once again make their views known, please be aware that I have added most of you to my Ignore preferences. This is a very handy feature of modern forum software, it is a personal "ban" feature.

Yes, and what a great way to show off that you are friendly and positive by immediately stating that you will block people and then continue to rant and antagonize. Edited February 12, 2012 by dighost

[Tierborn 191]

I don't understand the OP ... how can someone that you don't know impact you to that degree. If someone writes something negative and you don't agree .. read it and move on. There is no way that this persons opinion should impact to this degree. I know my "strong willed" personality is stronger than most .. but, I still have a difficult time understanding your pain on this one.

[dighost 25]

I don't understand the OP

Well said Tierborn. The OP's seems to have some control issues.

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

I feel no pain, nor do I advocate eliminating discussion, whether positive or negative, and I think that I made that very clear in my post. I don't know any of you nor will I ever meet you in person. so nothing you say can hurt me in any way.But, many of the people here only make ad hominem attacks, display anger and intolerance towards the people at MGS, show their repulsion towards Flight. And I have to ask: what is their point? What do they stand to gain? If they don't like a game that they have never tried, why don't they simply ignore it and go have fun with the one they do like.In the meantime, those of us who do like it cannot discuss it because they immediately pounce on the thread and bombard it with their negativity and their hate. Based on nothing in particular since they have not tried the title. That is pointless and only prevents the rest of us from participating because the "strong willed" overwhelm us "weaker willed" members.I ask those of you who don't like Flight and who refuse to like Flight to please realize that you have said it and that you can now go about your business. You will see, the same as for the FS X forum 6 years ago, that this forum will then be immediately populated by the rest of the forum members who will be glad to finally have a place to discuss their interest in Flight.I do not live in Iran, but I do participate in Avsim, and there is no free speech here. Tom is very tolerant, but he has made that amply clear and I agree with him.By the way, my forum preferences prevent me from seeing 4 or 5 of the replies here, and I imagine that will continue to increase for a little while.Best regards.Luis

[dighost 25]

so nothing you say can hurt me in any way.

Luis, you are taking all the discussion here way too personal. I mean way too much....

[Guest]

Odd OP... Let me start by saying I am REALLY looking forward to MS Flight and I simply ignore people who keep on shouting the same negative stuff. The odd thing about your post is that it starts off by saying you don't like the hate stuff on the forum and it ends with a lot of (what looks or at least feels like) hate stuff with all that talk about 'banning' and doing you a favor... Very odd...

[JoeD 0]

I wiil just say that one has to differentiate hate from legitimate (and well deserved) criticism. Hiding ones head in the sand in the name of enthusiasm only serves to enforce and promote shotcommings in whatever the subject might be.Personally, I'm a firm believer in the proposial that "if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".Flight is only a computer game and MS is only the company that makes the game.Have we become so accepting of being misled by most everyone that we no longer feel that we have the right to express an opinion?

Edited February 12, 2012 by JoeD