Few questions about PMDG 737-800

[nicholas49 0]

Guys, I am still really struggling with this. Can I just explain what happens:Before I start the take-off roll, the only green lights on the MCP are the A/T armed (showing in PFD too) and the FD. Is this correct?I am using TOGA thrust. I rotate and follow the FD (which seems to show 20 degrees pitch up - seems a bit steep?). By about 1,000 agl, the speed is decaying. This is definitely happening even before the thrust reduces to CLB thrust. Following the FD = a speed decay. This cannot be right!On a separate note, when I select CMD A, this activates: 1) HDG select; 2) N1 and 3) LVL CHANGE on the MCP (assuming I'm not using LNAV/VNAV). Is this correct?Also, what do people mean by the 'acceleration height' and also how do I do this:

At this stage select Flaps Up speed in the MCP speed window (the magenta bug on the speed tape, move it to the -UP flag).

I can't adjust anything on the speed tape and I see nothing in the MCP about flaps?Help!Nick Edited February 18, 2012 by nicholas49

[Daniel choen 23]

Guys, I am still really struggling with this. Can I just explain what happens:Before I start the take-off roll, the only green lights on the MCP are the A/T armed (showing in PFD too) and the FD. Is this correct?I am using TOGA thrust. I rotate and follow the FD (which seems to show 20 degrees pitch up - seems a bit steep?). By about 1,000 agl, the speed is decaying. This is definitely happening even before the thrust reduces to CLB thrust. Following the FD = a speed decay. This cannot be right!On a separate note, when I select CMD A, this activates: 1) HDG select; 2) N1 and 3) LVL CHANGE on the MCP (assuming I'm not using LNAV/VNAV). Is this correct?Also, what do people mean by the 'acceleration height' and also how do I do this: I can't adjust anything on the speed tape and I see nothing in the MCP about flaps?Help!Nick

you should use LNAV and VNAV if notת lvl change and HDG.acceleration height, you can see i did a post not long a go called, reduction vs acceleration height.

[FirstOfficera320 1]

Guys, I am still really struggling with this. Can I just explain what happens:Before I start the take-off roll, the only green lights on the MCP are the A/T armed (showing in PFD too) and the FD. Is this correct?I am using TOGA thrust. I rotate and follow the FD (which seems to show 20 degrees pitch up - seems a bit steep?). By about 1,000 agl, the speed is decaying. This is definitely happening even before the thrust reduces to CLB thrust. Following the FD = a speed decay. This cannot be right!On a separate note, when I select CMD A, this activates: 1) HDG select; 2) N1 and 3) LVL CHANGE on the MCP (assuming I'm not using LNAV/VNAV). Is this correct?Also, what do people mean by the 'acceleration height' and also how do I do this: I can't adjust anything on the speed tape and I see nothing in the MCP about flaps?Help!Nick

Hi Nick,For take off try with flaps 5 TOGA thrust. at VR start rotating and count in your head to 5sec. You should be at about 15 degrees nose up now. Now look at your airspeed indicator and see wether it's above or belove V2+20. if it's above you need a few more degrees nose up and visa versa if it's below.At 1500 AGL lower the nose to 10 degrees and retract the flaps on schedule.Hope this helps,

[Spin737 102]

You guys should do some digging in the books. Just do a search for your keywords.Nicholas, have you actually hit the TOGA button, or are you just pushing the throttles up?LNAV:Yes you can arm it on the ground, if you meet the parameters. If becomes active at 50ft. You can select a new roll mode at 400ft. That's why the LNAV light lights up. Don't look at the MCP to see your mode, look at the Flight Mode Annunciator. Light =/= mode.A/PAutopilot can come on at 400ft.RTO:RTO can be activated after V1. The system will still work, but you shouldn't abort above it unless the aircraft is unable or unsafe to fly.

[nicholas49 0]

Nicholas, have you actually hit the TOGA button, or are you just pushing the throttles up?

Yes, I am using TOGA thrust (as I said several times in my earlier posts).FirstOfficer320: are you saying therefore to disregard the pitch in the FD?I really don't believe that anyone has yet been able to explain why following the FD leads to a speed decay. What might I not have programmed correctly in the FMC? If programmed correctly, surely the pitch angle shown on the FD will reduce at acceleration height? There should be no need to have to use tricks to get around this.Also - can someone explain how I know that the aircraft is maintaining V2+20 knots? There is only one speed showing on the IAS indicator!Nick

[Spin737 102]

Yes, I am using TOGA thrust (as I said several times in my earlier posts).

You might have the right thrust setting, but have you hit the TOGA button?What is your V2 and what speed are you at when you say it is decreasing?

[nicholas49 0]

Yes, I have hit the TOGA button! I advance the throttles to 40% manually, check the engines are stable, and then hit TOGA thrust using the tiny cross-hair button in the top left-hand part of the MCP. Let me know if this is not correct. FWIW, N1 was about 98% on the last take-off.On the last take-off I performed, V2 was 138 knots. The aircraft accelerated to about 160 knots after rotation and then the speed started to decay. At the risk of repeating myself, the speed decays when I follow the (seemingly steep) FD pitch (about 20 degrees). When the autothrust reduced to CLIMB THRUST, this made the speed decay worse/more quick.Nick

Edited February 20, 2012 by nicholas49

[martin-w 3,234]

I really don't believe that anyone has yet been able to explain why following the FD leads to a speed decay.

Trust me... you are most definitely doing something wrong!TOGA thrust using the tiny cross-hair button in the top left-hand part of the MCP.What tiny cross hair button? I hope you don't mean the course knob.The TOGA hidden click spot is between the flight director switch and the terrain button "lower than the course knob". Or assign a button on your controller or keyboard.Also, read the manuals, fly the tutorial.I usually do the following...Both flight directors onAutothrust toggle switch onaltitude setTrim setFlaps 5 setLNAV set before takeoff [if first waypoint is within the parameters]VNAV set before takeoff [if within parameters]Throtles to 40%Hit the hidden TOGA clickspot or assigned controller buttonTakeoffgear upEngage autopilotFlaps up as requiredIf you can't arm VNAV before takeoff then preset FL/CH, then engage autopilot above 400 feet, and then when you get to the thrust reduction and acceleration altitude, set the speed bug to the maximum clean speed. Engage VNAV as required. Edited February 20, 2012 by martin-w

[Spin737 102]

On the last take-off I performed, V2 was 138 knots. The aircraft accelerated to about 160 knots after rotation and then the speed started to decay. At the risk of repeating myself, the speed decays when I follow the (seemingly steep) FD pitch (about 20 degrees). When the autothrust reduced to CLIMB THRUST, this made the speed decay worse/more quick.

Some screen captures would help.If you are slow in rotation, then the F/D will command a higher initial pitch to get you back on speed, but it you were at 160 with a V2 of 138, then you should be fine. When you say the speed is decaying, what indications are you seeing? Is the F/D pitch dropping to 15 or so? How slow are you getting?At what altitude are you going to start your acceleration for clean-up?

[martin-w 3,234]

The OP needs to read the manuals and fly the tutorial perhaps. :(

[nicholas49 0]

The TOGA hidden click spot is between the flight director switch and the terrain button "lower than the course knob". Or assign a button on your controller or keyboard.

I beg to differ. It is the small cross to the left and slightly above the COURSE indicator window. When you hover over it, the mouse changes to a hand. When you click it, TO/GA lights up in the green on the PFD. So that is not the problem.Martin-which tutorial are you referring to? I searched for the one by Tom Risager (is that the one you mean?) and cannot find it anywhere. All the links are dead. I would be grateful if you could direct me.

[SteveAull 22]

Also remember when you rotate to not follow the FD pitch commands. Thats why the book says rotate at 3 degrees per sec. Once clear of the runway and positive rate of climb (altimeter). Initial climbout body attitude will vary inversly as to your wgt. If your below V2 FD pitch will drop to get you to at least V2. If you are at V2 or within 10-20kts above FD will pitch to maintain. If above that the FD will command pitch down. Concerning climb out speed, as long as you're above V2 you are safe. Someone mentioned under rotation. This is true. If you are taking your sweet time rotating then by the time you get to the correct body angle you are fast. At acceleration hgt the FD will command pitch down to accelerate for the flaps retraction schedule. Depending on your mode you'll want to adjust speed window to flaps up manv speed. Once the FD commands pitch down don't be waiting around to make this adjustment, you have to get on in.Best thing to do is forget LNAV/VNAV. Setup a saved flight and just practice the T/O procedures. As far as LNAV is concerned sometimes this is relied on to much. A lot of airports don't have departures setup so you'll have to get the bird onto a hdg that will intercept the first LNAV crs.So forget LNAV and VNAV for now and just try the T/O procedures. Let's say you were doing local touch and goes to practice ILS work. You won't be using LNAV or VNAV.Also LNAV and VNAV are not miracle workers. Let's say you have to conduct a tight turn after takeoff. You'll want the lower speed to reduce the turn radius, which means flaps may have to stay out longer. Or let's say I'm flying the local pattern and want more visibility over the nose than a lower body angle is needed. Only two thing can help you here. Higher speed or flaps left out, I believe in and around the airport it's 235 kts. I generally fly at 190kts and flaps 1 or 2 sometimes 5 to see where I'm going. Also when making small altitude adjustments sometimes it's best not to use LVCHG. If your really light making a 1,000 altitude change with LVLCHG will produce a nice pitch change which will be noticed in back. I make this statement concerning a drop in altitude. I just dial in new altitude and rotate the verticle speed dial. Mind you this is when lowering altitude. Remember V/S does not provide speed protection.As you can see there are a ton of variables at play but ultimately this thing is still an airplane. Practice T/O procedures until you feel comfortable with them and then move on to other things. Good luck.

Edited February 20, 2012 by SteveAull

[flyer767 0]

1. Start FSBuild and enter departure and arrival airports with runways. To get FSBuild to work you have to enter the runway. The program is smart and knows which procedure is authorized for a runway.2. In this example I enter KJFK and 13R erasing any departure procedure shown in the drop down box.3. Enter KDEN and 17L for the arrival runway erasing any arrival procedure in the drop down box and ALT for the sake of simplicity.4. Look to the right of the 17L and you will see a box that says PM with an X underneath it.5. Make sure the Route tab is selected and press the PM key.6. A box will appear on the right titled SID/DEP procedures and on the right also is a "STAR" box if any are authorized for the selected arrival runway.7. Highlight the first one. The procedure will be displayed in red. Right click BETTE3.ACK and a small window will say "insert BETTE3.ACK into route procedure". Left click to insert.8. Do the same for the arrival procedure if any is shown. I chose the "GLD.DANDD5".9. Click the waypoint tab to build or route tab to build the flight plan. The route tab has to be highlighted to build the plan and display it graphically.10. Navigraph always has the latest FSBuild FMS Data files.11. You can now go to Airnav.com or Navmonster.com and look at charts to see how you want to customize your flight by looking at the exact procedure. There are many ways and this is probably not the only way but it works for the way I like to fly. Also there are tutorials on the FSBuild.com home page which is where I got most of this info. This will at least get you going as I had the same frustration when I started. I only use FSbuild for ASE 2012 and RC4. I just make the FMS flight plan match the FSBuild(.pln) file. If there is an arrival procedure FSBuild only goes to the end of the arrival procedure and then you have to load the approach however you see fit so there will most likely be discontinuities.12. You can export to PMDG but I do not as there is no need to. On the 767 and MD11 you can use co routes but on the 737 co routes cannot include arrival and departure procedures so they take a little bit of work. It is just easier not to use them and load any necessary waypoints through page 2 on the RTE button on the FMS. Also Google maps is nice to as an option if you are into geography. I use a seperate directory to copy the files into after I rename them. The file is fsbgooglemap.html and the previous file is over written each time you select the Google map option.10. You can select the aircraft and cruise altitude also.11. I hope this has helped to solve the issue with arrival and departure procedures plus all of the other information. This is what makes flight simming so much fun is you can do it however you choose.ThanksDonSorry about the double post but this is Option 4 for Nicholas491. Start FSBuild and enter departure and arrival airports with runways. To get FSBuild to work you have to enter the runway. The program is smart and knows which procedure is authorized for a runway.2. In this example I enter KJFK and 13R erasing any departure procedure shown in the drop down box.3. Enter KDEN and 17L for the arrival runway erasing any arrival procedure in the drop down box and ALT for the sake of simplicity.4. Look to the right of the 17L and you will see a box that says PM with an X underneath it.5. Make sure the Route tab is selected and press the PM key.6. A box will appear on the right titled SID/DEP procedures and on the right also is a "STAR" box if any are authorized for the selected arrival runway.7. Highlight the first one. The procedure will be displayed in red. Right click BETTE3.ACK and a small window will say "insert BETTE3.ACK into route procedure". Left click to insert.8. Do the same for the arrival procedure if any is shown. I chose the "GLD.DANDD5".9. Click the waypoint tab to build or route tab to build the flight plan. The route tab has to be highlighted to build the plan and display it graphically.10. Navigraph always has the latest FSBuild FMS Data files.11. You can now go to Airnav.com or Navmonster.com and look at charts to see how you want to customize your flight by looking at the exact procedure. There are many ways and this is probably not the only way but it works for the way I like to fly. Also there are tutorials on the FSBuild.com home page which is where I got most of this info. This will at least get you going as I had the same frustration when I started. I only use FSbuild for ASE 2012 and RC4. I just make the FMS flight plan match the FSBuild(.pln) file. If there is an arrival procedure FSBuild only goes to the end of the arrival procedure and then you have to load the approach however you see fit so there will most likely be discontinuities.12. You can export to PMDG but I do not as there is no need to. On the 767 and MD11 you can use co routes but on the 737 co routes cannot include arrival and departure procedures so they take a little bit of work. It is just easier not to use them and load any necessary waypoints through page 2 on the RTE button on the FMS. Also Google maps is nice to as an option if you are into geography. I use a seperate directory to copy the files into after I rename them. The file is fsbgooglemap.html and the previous file is over written each time you select the Google map option.10. You can select the aircraft and cruise altitude also.11. I hope this has helped to solve the issue with arrival and departure procedures plus all of the other information. This is what makes flight simming so much fun is you can do it however you choose.ThanksDon

[FSMuseum 39]

2. Flaps. The aircraft's flap setting matches what is programmed in the FMC (i.e. Flaps 5). So this should not be the reason why the FMC does not provide the correct climb-out performance data for the FD. However, this point raises another question: how do I know which flap setting I need for any particular departure? Where do I source this information?

I can't really answer this, but I always just get me the flap setting that gets a Vr below 150 knots indicated for the 800 and 900, and below 130 knots indicated for the 600 and 700

[adamant365 28]

I beg to differ. It is the small cross to the left and slightly above the COURSE indicator window. When you hover over it, the mouse changes to a hand. When you click it, TO/GA lights up in the green on the PFD. So that is not the problem.

Incorrect. The TOGA clickspot is located below and to the left of the course knob, or directly left of the F/D button. Nicholas was correct by stating it's between the FD switch and the TERR button for the map. See P 108 (0.0.108) of the NGX Introduction Manual. Although in your defense, it seems that 90% of other airliner add-ons have the TOGA clickspot where you mention.