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procedure for "flaps locked in the up position"
8 replies to this topic
Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:18 AM
I was on approach and had just put in 1 degree of flaps in when my first officer told me that the flaps were stuck/locked in the up position. Oddly enough I could see that the flaps automatically continued to drop without any input from me with the flaps lever (i'm not sure this is realistic or not). Looking at the abnormal procedure checklists this is not addressed. I would appreciate some input.Thanks,Chris Porter
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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:34 AM
Sorry, forgot to mention I fly with fspassengers where "failures" happen from time to time and whatever aircraft you are flying the aircraft will behave or show the failure unlike default FS failures (another fspassenger example: right gear wont go down--the aircraft will show this from an outside view and the aircraft will actually behave as such. That was why I needed a procedure. Something happened that the stick shaker activated and with being so low to the ground I was unable to recover. Had I had instruction on how to handle the problem when I found I had no flaps I might have avoided the disaster. I did post elswhere and was told to find the aircrafts flaps up stall speed which I will do. Would be nice though if there is a procedure for this to have it.Thanks,Chris
Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:06 PM
Let me restate what was going on for my own clarification. On approach, you called for flaps 1 and the FO selected flaps 1 but reported to you that the trailing edge flaps were stuck in the UP position. At the same time you observed the trailing edge flaps continue to extend on the flap gauge. The aircraft continued to slow and eventually stalled. First of all, I'm not sure why you are seeing trailing edge flaps extending on the flap gauge, but the trailing edge flaps are really UP according to your FO. The flap gauge is not going to lie about actual trailing edge flap position on a real airplane so this is not making sense. Let’s assume you had a trailing edge flaps stuck in the UP position but the slats are extending normally. There is a Boeing procedure in the non-normal checklist for this failure called, Trailing Edge Flaps Up Landing which states, if trailing edge flaps are less than 1 use a VREF of 40 + 40 knots. In other words, you take VREF 40 for you current aircraft weight and add 40 knots to it. For example: For a given aircraft weight, VREF 40 = 143 knots, add 40 = 183 knots. 183 knots is the new VREF speed for a trailing edge flaps at less than 1 approach and landing. The other possible failure is to have no trailing edge flaps or leading edge flaps and slats extend. This would call for the All Flaps Up Landing procedure which calls for a VREF speed of VREF +55 knots for approach and landing. The FAA usually requires the captain to do at least one of these failures in a simulator every year. There are also several other Boeing non-normal’s for flaps and slats that I haven’t mentioned. Aloha, John Floyd
Edited by zubart, 27 February 2012 - 01:07 PM.
Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:10 PM
Thanks. You are correct, I called for flaps 1 and but the first officer reported that the trailing edge flaps were stuck in the UP position. I observed the trailing edge flaps continue to extend on the flap gauge, which was confusing, so I switched to an outside view and saw that the flaps were actually extending down to 40. What confused me more was that the airspeed indicator showed that I was traveling at too high a speed (I was at aprox 173--VREF 149 according to the FMC) which would make sense if the flaps were fully deployed. At the same time the airspeed indicator showed a stall speed 5 knots below that upper limit. I continued to slow to get the speed between the overspeed and the stall speed but before I could get within 10 knots of that the stick shaker activated. I put in full power and pitched down but I was already too low to recover and crashed. I'm thinking these factors combined may be unrealistic, I'm not sure.Thanks,Chris Porter
Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:23 PM
Don't know what to tell you. Maybe FSPassengers causing some kind of conflict with FS9 or the PMDG 737.Yes. The Alternate Flap Extension procedure is part of the Trailing Edge Flaps up Landing procedure to extend the leading edge flaps and slats.The Alternate Flaps Extension procedures is also called for in several other flight control abnormals.Do you have a Boeing QRH (Quick Reference Handbook)?John Floyd
I observed the trailing edge flaps continue to extend on the flap gauge, which was confusing, so I switched to an outside view and saw that the flaps were actually extending down to 40.