FS9. FSX & P3D CTD Guide - NEW!
FSX / P3D Configuration Guide - UPDATED!
Simulation's Premier Resource!
AVSIM is a free service to the flight and simulation communities. Please help us keep it that way. Donate what you can today! Thank you for your support!
Takeoff runway clearance and emergency landing after takeoff
9 replies to this topic
Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:59 PM
Hello,just now I was preparing myself to fly for the first time using the NGX by PMDG with the ATC from FSX, since I'm starting to feel a bit more confident with the A/C.I use TOPCAT to pick my derate options. Up to now, I would pick myself the takeoff runway, but IIRC in real life, ATC would pick the runway for you, depending on wind, traffic, runway condition, etc...So, my question is, in RL when does the pilot get the runway clearance? Is it like in FSX just prior to taxi? I read in the PMDG manuals that calculations for derates are quite complex, and are done by airline staff on the ground. Do the pilots get derates for each and every runway of the airport?In the boeing procedures, FMC and MCP are programmed during preflight. How can one do so without knowing which runway will he takeoff from? (this, of course assuming that the reply to the question about clearance is "just prior to taxi")On a similar note, how would one pick the runway to land on in case of emergency? I guess it's up to the pilot once he declares an emergency to do so, and in the PMDG manual you are taught to setup your ILS, course and minimums for a certain runway during of the departure airport during preflight, in case you have to make a quick landing after takeoff.Last question: do pilots have a full flight plan for alternate airports? Does it go from the destination airport all the way to the alternate? Or are they supposed to be vectored by ATC/fly direct?Thank you kindly! :)
Please donate today!
Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:03 AM
Which runway is in use will often be broadcast on the airport's ATIS. Especially in Europe (not so sure about the rest of the world) SIDs are often runway specific, so your IFR clearance will implicitly tell you which runway to use (since you are cleared for a specific SID).Picking an emergency landing runway would be done prior to take-off (probably at the gate where you don't have to watch where you're taxiing) based on the winds, ATIS information and aircraft capabilities.To get from your destination to an alternate you would have a flight plan available, you wouldn't be vectored by ATC, navigation is in principle the pilot's job. ATC vectors are to help out in an emergency (i.e. the pilot got lost) or to ensure proper traffic separation.ATC will sometimes assign runway changes after the plane is already taxiing or just prior to push-back, in which case it becomes pretty obvious why real airliners have at least 2 flight crew members :).
Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:54 AM
IRL it happens sometimes that you start taxiing and suddenly get a re-learance for a different runway and a different departure route. Not nice as this increases the workload quite a bit.Derate calculations are done only by the pilots as you have to use the latest weight and balance data and the latest weather and you do that after receiving the loadsheet when closing the doors.That's usually the last item before pushback/engine start.Almost all airlines use a laptop for the performance calculation and entering the necessary data takes only a few minutes so it's no big deal.Problem is that a reclearance does cause distraction and that's ceretainly not needed during taxiing.Alternates are most of the time not too far away from the destination so you either get radar vectors all the way to the alternate or at least initial radar vectors to the nearest fix.On your flightplan the way to the alternate is rather basic as you don't follow a departure route to join a certain airway to the alternate.Furthermore you stay rather low on the way to the alternate so you are not in conflict with 'normal' traffic.Low and slow it's easier for ATC to send you as direct as possible to the alternate. Furthermore most of the time you don't have too much fuel to play with either, so a direct routing is definitely appreciated or even requested. You do brief your preferred landing runway in case of a re-landing, which is normally the longest and/or the one with the least crosswind component, depending on the reason for the re-landing.So that's 'felixible' as well.
Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:56 PM
Just to add, unless it is a pan call that you make (i.e. a problem, but not an immediately urgent one), then a mayday call for an emergency landing will normally elicit the kind of response from ATC where they will facilitate as many runways as possible for your use. Typically ATC will hold traffic from entering all suitable runways and send everyone who was on approach to go around or go missed, or go into a hold until the mayday aircraft is down and safe, because the policy is always to give an emergency top priority over worries about other aircraft enduring a departure or arrival delay.You can hear many examples of this in recordings of ATC calls from incidents where an emergency is declared, such as the Airbus that ditched in the Hudson, where ATC is offering them all kinds of runway options until the pilot makes it clear that he cannot reach any of them. Even under slightly less dramatic circumstances, this still occurs, for example on this video. Things to note are that Manchester ATC offer them any runway and have cleared runway 09 at Liverpool too (which would be a 20 knot crosswind) since they are heading out over the Wallasey VOR and will come back around near to Liverpool (about 35 miles away). The crew elect to go for Manchester 06R, and this is because in addition to there only being a ten knot crosswind for runway 06, it is the runway furthest from the terminal, in case the aircraft veers off the runway, and also the one nearest where the fire crews practice and much of the airport's emergency equipment is generally located. 06L is of course also not a good choice, since it would be contaminated with engine debris, being that it is the one they departed from. One other consideration is that coming into the runways the other way would take them over a more populated area, whereas the approach to 06 is more open terrain, which would mean a better chance at a belly landing in a field if they were unlucky enough to lose the other engine on approach:Thus the actual choice of runway for an emergency can depend on many things, wind being just one of the major determining factors, and not just for helping with the landing , but also for ensuring that any flames are blown away from the fuselage rather than toward it if, for example, an engine is suspected of being a fire hazard and passengers have to be evacuated. The pilot's knowledge of the airport layout can have a bearing on this, for example, he or she may choose a runway which is easiest to evacuate safely from, best served by emergency vehicles, or one which is clear of nearby structures, perhaps even one that is especially long or wide, or has a better surface, or maybe even a longer run-off area beyond it. Much of this sort of thing can be mentioned in the departure briefing, so that the decision is already made and the crew can coordinate quickly and without the need for further discussion during an actual emergency. You can hear how calm the Thomson crew sound on that remarkable video, which is the benefit of always doing a good departure briefing and being aware of the options.They do a great job of it as you can see and hear. Any emergency landing is of course fairly dramatic, but having had to make one or two of them over the years, albeit not as dramatic as the ones mentioned above, I can confirm that the briefing you make before you take off does 'kick in' and help you to make the right decisions quickly and then stick to those decisions, so all that preparation really does work, since I am still here to relate that!Al
Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:21 AM
Many many years ago I had to ditch in the English Channel! Caused by a fractured propeller. There were 5 sob We had life jackets and a dinghy. I was able to land on the crest of the swell. As we evacuated the helicopter was already in sight. I had to do a full on MAYDAY only needing to repeat my intentions twice. Nobody needed to be hospitalised and we were able to by the Search and Rescue crew a beer to thank them!Initially one's reaction is "What the---------------!!!!" But your training kicks in immediately. I did everything by the book. Nevertheless it was quite a hairy moment.vololiberista
Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:56 PM
You can pick and choose if you want to, and in some cases it will speed up load times depending on your cache settings, but I usually leave em all ticked. To see if your third party scenery is running (apart from the obvious visual difference in the simulation,, untick it, quit, then start up and tick it, if you see a load bar building scenery files, it is going into the sim, although how high up it is on the scenery list can have a bearing on whether something else in the same location overrides it. See your scenery's install instructions for the correct settings.Al