2D panel or only 3D panel

[percylee 13]

Not being a programer I do wonder how much time and resource it does take to make a 2D main panel with PDF,ND,ENG,SYS and FMC pop ups, then key codes for rest of switches? The rest of plane is needed weather 2D or VC.

percy clapp

[3catcircus 1]

These are honest questions:

Why do people want a full 2D panel? What is it about the 3D that you hate? Why is the 2D so much better in your opinion?

 

 

 

I can't find the posts from back in the day, but I remember being a huge 2D supporter, and listed reasons. My main reason was my computer's lack of ability to handle the 3D and that's about it. The rest of the reasons were all justified conservatism (resistance to change).

 

One very simple reason: well-done 2D panels are ALWAYS going to be cleaner-looking than 3D panels for the majority of users - the vast majority of them aren't going to be running a bleeding-edge rig with everything maxed out graphically. Additionally, most users don't have TrackIR and/or EZDOK.

 

Second reason - unless optimized, 3D panels typically eat up frames in comparison to 2D panels.

 

Third reason - I personally prefer the 2D panel because it is quicker for me to switch between pop-ups to mash buttons while keeping my eyes on the main panel rather than try to sweep across a 3D panel to mash buttons.

[ajpongress 467]

IMO, if you have track IR and EZCA on one monitor 3d is the way to go.

 

Of using multiple monitors then 2d is the way to go

[pete_auau 1,158]

Third reason - I personally prefer the 2D panel because it is quicker for me to switch between pop-ups to mash buttons while keeping my eyes on the main panel rather than try to sweep across a 3D panel to mash buttons.

 

Being quicker has nothing to do with flying if your flying ahead of the plane instead of behind as kyle has mentioned before, you got to set up everything before you start your descent than theres no need to mash buttons as you say than all you need to do is to fly to plane. As for eating frame rates than maybe you need to slide the settings down abit to suit your system. And as using the 2d view for landing using the pop up displays as you say usually blocks another view and u need to drag it else where. Also in 3d you can pan around alot easier in landing and you able to see where you going

[EGLL77W 1,508]

IMO, if you want to be realistic then 3-D is the only way to go. If people want a 777 2-D so bad then you got a better chance of going to FS9 and using the PSS 777, that 2-D is very good I must say. Not sure why you'd do that vs PMDG's 777 VC though. 2-D Panels are the past now, look to the future and get use to them. 2-D Panels are so boring in flight too, at least in the 3-D I can play with the wipers etc in flight ha! And you can't taxi in 2-D, well you can but it's a pain.. I just can't get my head around people wanting the 2-D so much. To be honest as much as you argue and debate PMDG wont change their minds, if they do then that means you've probably delayed release a little bit for all of us that want a VC and a fantastic Model which is all you need. I've only flown the NGX a few times and I just skip right past the 2-D Panel, so dull and boring when you have a VC like that!! I get 25-35 (sometimes 40) FPS depending, and I don't have a customised Desktop etc. I would personally give up loads of trees etc on the ground to give the 777 in ultra high quality and all the performance to run smooth, think about it. In real world simulators do they care about the ground apart from the Airport? It's about playing around with your settings mainly too, you'll make it work some how but it takes a lot of playing around and testing.

 

My thoughts.. Also I think this topic is kind of like beating a dead horse, PMDG make views for you in the VC which you just have to press (A) or right click and select and you can see the Overhead nicely from the ground up if it makes it easier. You can set up new views like over looking the MCP.. You'll love it sooner than later ;)

[3catcircus 1]

Being quicker has nothing to do with flying if your flying ahead of the plane instead of behind as kyle has mentioned before, you got to set up everything before you start your descent than theres no need to mash buttons as you say than all you need to do is to fly to plane. As for eating frame rates than maybe you need to slide the settings down abit to suit your system. And as using the 2d view for landing using the pop up displays as you say usually blocks another view and u need to drag it else where. Also in 3d you can pan around alot easier in landing and you able to see where you going

 

Who said anyhing about descent? In general, the highest workload situation (for me) is during takeoff - when I have to quickly switch from Tower to Departure (I only use flightsim when online with VATSIM or IVAO) while also controlling the aircraft and also looking out for traffic. Having that radio/comms panel as a2D pop-up on the main 2D panel is much much quicker to deal with than trying to sweep from heads-up to looking down at the pedestal to switch frequencies in a 3D panel.

 

Additionally, how much do you need to pan? I find that the 8 points of a hat switch work just fine to see where I need to see.

[Airbusman 1]

Why do people want a full 2D panel? What is it about the 3D that you hate? Why is the 2D so much better in your opinion?

 

For those without EZ dock or that headgear thingy its much easier to use at times, I'm a 3d cockpit fan but sometimes I wish some addons I use had 2d panels because its easy to pop something up, click the button, and close the panel within 2 seconds while hand flying. Before easy dock I had to pan to the switch which takes a bit of time and required that I put the plane into level flight or risk a crash.

 

As for hat switches my buttons are all occupied with trim, autopilot master disconnect, mike key, wheel brake, flaps and spoilers, and aileron trims. Overall I'm happy with 3d as long as there is a 2d FMS .

[g_precentralis 191]

IMO, if you want to be realistic then 3-D is the only way to go. If people want a 777 2-D so bad then you got a better chance of going to FS9 and using the PSS 777, that 2-D is very good I must say. Not sure why you'd do that vs PMDG's 777 VC though. 2-D Panels are the past now, look to the future and get use to them. 2-D Panels are so boring in flight too, at least in the 3-D I can play with the wipers etc in flight ha! And you can't taxi in 2-D, well you can but it's a pain.. I just can't get my head around people wanting the 2-D so much. To be honest as much as you argue and debate PMDG wont change their minds, if they do then that means you've probably delayed release a little bit for all of us that want a VC and a fantastic Model which is all you need. I've only flown the NGX a few times and I just skip right past the 2-D Panel, so dull and boring when you have a VC like that!! I get 25-35 (sometimes 40) FPS depending, and I don't have a customised Desktop etc. I would personally give up loads of trees etc on the ground to give the 777 in ultra high quality and all the performance to run smooth, think about it. In real world simulators do they care about the ground apart from the Airport? It's about playing around with your settings mainly too, you'll make it work some how but it takes a lot of playing around and testing.

 

My thoughts.. Also I think this topic is kind of like beating a dead horse, PMDG make views for you in the VC which you just have to press (A) or right click and select and you can see the Overhead nicely from the ground up if it makes it easier. You can set up new views like over looking the MCP.. You'll love it sooner than later ;)

How much exactly PMDG payed to you for this?

2d panels are not past as every serious airliner addon have them, just research a little and you will see. Even WIP airliner addons, have announced set of 2d panels. Actually we do not want your version of realism. You expressed some of your personal feelings we dont care of. For me VC is boring and 2d is not, so what? Who cares about that? You have to understand that every single person is different (tnx god, I do not want to be like you at all, I mean 2d is panel is boring? #####?).

So, I do not care about release time or about army of unhappy 2d haters, I'll support 2d panels all the way, whatever they actually do.

 

Yea, I do not want views in VC, thats just lame, in VC I want Captain and F/O view, all other views are redundant.

I think I'll love VC when you start to use 2d panels.

[vc10man 732]

Actually we do not want your version of realism. You expressed some of your personal feelings we dont care of. For me VC is boring and 2d is not, so what? Who cares about that?

Well said. This is turning out to be exactly where a similar thread was heading long before the PMDG 737NGX even saw daylight, i.e 'we are pro-VC and everybody must bend with us'.

[EGLL77W 1,508]

 

How much exactly PMDG payed to you for this?

2d panels are not past as every serious airliner addon have them, just research a little and you will see. Even WIP airliner addons, have announced set of 2d panels. Actually we do not want your version of realism. You expressed some of your personal feelings we dont care of. For me VC is boring and 2d is not, so what? Who cares about that? You have to understand that every single person is different (tnx god, I do not want to be like you at all, I mean 2d is panel is boring? #####?).

So, I do not care about release time or about army of unhappy 2d haters, I'll support 2d panels all the way, whatever they actually do.

 

Yea, I do not want views in VC, thats just lame, in VC I want Captain and F/O view, all other views are redundant.

I think I'll love VC when you start to use 2d panels.

 

Oh snap Rob someone is on too us... Yes you're right I'm a paid employee from PMDG to tell you the truth. Sorry I blew my cover Rob..

 

I don't see a sign anywhere saying I can't express thoughts EXACTLY like everyone. The only 2-D I'll ever use again is the FMC sometimes and that does it, I like to fly in the VC, deal with it. If you'd rather sit 15 hours looking at a 2-D panel than a 3-D panel then get your head seeing too haha.

 

I bet you've not even given the VC say in the NGX a try, don't say "I flew it a couple of times" because that's nothing, it can take a while to get use to it. By not flying the VC makes it almost pointless to buy a PMDG Aircraft because that's where they try the hardest for US and seems some people don't even want to give it a REAL chance.

 

Why can't you just appreciate that Rob said no more main 2-D panels and move on. Not like they're even going 100% 3-D yet.

 

And I've flown 2-D panels since I started flying in FS9 thank you. I've said what I needed to say, or I your case I've been paid so I need to say no more. Safe flying now! :)

[PHXMD-11 86]

Dear god, I can't believe this has gone on this long. We all have our own preferences. No one should be that their preferences are better than someone else's or that everyone needs to have the same. It's called respecting another's differences in opinion.

[ajpongress 467]

Well said. This is turning out to be exactly where a similar thread was heading long before the PMDG 737NGX even saw daylight, i.e 'we are pro-VC and everybody must bend with us'.

 

Okay, but no one is forcing anyone to buy a VC only aircraft either.

PMDG produces these aircraft for the consumer, and it's the consumer's choice to actually buy it or not.

 

So what if some dude comes in here and says your opinion is wrong? You know what you like. If you like 2D, then that's perfectly okay. Just don't keep complaining to PMDG about 2D on a plane they already said won't have much of it.

They made their decision, and so should everyone else regarding purchasing the plane.

 

I don't support cramming your own personal preference down someone else's throat either, but in the end you're the one paying for it, and you're the one flying it.

Everything is up to you.

[g_precentralis 191]

Oh snap Rob someone is on too us... Yes you're right I'm a paid employee from PMDG to tell you the truth. Sorry I blew my cover Rob..

 

I don't see a sign anywhere saying I can't express thoughts EXACTLY like everyone. The only 2-D I'll ever use again is the FMC sometimes and that does it, I like to fly in the VC, deal with it. If you'd rather sit 15 hours looking at a 2-D panel than a 3-D panel then get your head seeing too haha.

 

I bet you've not even given the VC say in the NGX a try, don't say "I flew it a couple of times" because that's nothing, it can take a while to get use to it. By not flying the VC makes it almost pointless to buy a PMDG Aircraft because that's where they try the hardest for US and seems some people don't even want to give it a REAL chance.

 

Why can't you just appreciate that Rob said no more main 2-D panels and move on. Not like they're even going 100% 3-D yet.

 

And I've flown 2-D panels since I started flying in FS9 thank you. I've said what I needed to say, or I your case I've been paid so I need to say no more. Safe flying now! :)

 

Omg, you are really unfixable. I do not care what you fly, as long as you enjoy, but YOU are the one who try to make 2d panel users crazy, and to tell us 2d panels sucks. You are trying to change my opinion, not opposite! I do not want to use VC, deal with it.

 

If I want to fly eye-candy aircraft, I would buy CS addon PMDG tried hardest at fidelity of systems.

 

I apprechiate what Rob said, no 2d panels, no money from me. fair enough.

[EGLL77W 1,508]

I apprechiate what Rob said, no 2d panels, no money from me. fair enough.

 

Whatever mate, if you want to miss out then do so. Not my problem!

 

.......

 

+1

[jcalder 25]

I think you all need to relax.

 

This whole subject is nothing more than personal preference. The 3D guys all want to be rid of 2D based on "I don't use it so it doesn't need to be there".

 

I don't use the VC so I think PMDG should stop making VC's. They use too many resources, they lower FPS and panning around with a hat switch to simulate head movements is unrealistic. I have a monitor mounted on my ceiling to simulate an overhead, that's more realistic than your EZDOK or TRACKIR.

 

Since the solution 3D folk always have is "just buy ezdok or Track IR", well here's a solution for you. 2D panels only and purchase 2 or 3 video cards and 4 or 6 monitors and mount them properly around your desk. You want realism? That's probably better than panning around a screen.

 

That costs money? Big deal, ezdok or track IR cost money. You're telling the 2D crowd to deal with it, imagine if the shoe was on the other foot?

 

They are talking of removing what a good portion of users use. I think a couple of you are just repeating "they've made their decision and that's final". I don't agree with that. If enough people voice their opinions they could always add the 2D. If PMDG ends up losing enough money over people not buying due to the lack of 2D panels, they might add them.

 

That's what I figure. Would I go as far as to not buy the 777 due to a lack of a 2D overhead? At this point I'm not sure. Due to the threat of removing 2D stuff I've been using the 3D cockpit in the NGX for the last few weeks and so far I'm not impressed.

 

Frankly I don't see why the 3D people are so riled up over their 3D cockpits. I can fly using it but it isn't nearly as enjoyable. FOR ME. (note I am not saying remove the VC or they should only develop 2D. I realize there are two groups of people and both types are used. I support developing both.)

 

3D people can't see why 2D people want to use 2D. I think the people here from the "3d crowd" should put the shoe on the other foot and see how they would feel if PMDG was removing the VC instead of the 2D panels. I bet they'd be some upset.