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vahidpm

Aircraft Collision in KLAX!

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Hi!

I use Radar Contact 4.3 in FSX and also I have a virtual company in FSPassenger X and in these days I fly MD-82(Maddog 2008) aircraft in my company. I also use MyTraffic as a traffic and Active Sky 2012 as a weather program.

Last night I was on a long flight from Vancouver (CYVR) to Los Angeles (KLAX) and it was a 3 hour flight without acceleration. The flight was good and after 3 hours I went to land on runway 06L in KLAX. every thing was normal and I used ILS approach to 06L. The ATC (Radar Contact) told me I am clear to land on 06L and the landing was smooth BUT after touchdown I saw a dust in front of me on the runway and unfortunately I saw a BIG A380 (Singapore Airline) is taking off from opposite in the same runway (24R) and after that we had a head collision and all my passengers died and FSPassenger told me it was my fault!!! :Phbbbt:

Then how could it happen in Radar Contact that we (2 airplane) are on the same runway?!

Any Idea how to prevent it in future?

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Hi,

 

You can do some things to help you in that situation.

 

Download AI Smooth ,a small program which helps in moving AI traffic out of the road of your plane.

 

The second is to look at Active Sky and make sure that you are using it in the best possible way.A search of the AS forums will help.

 

If you are using AS with DWC on and the arrival weather locked try, when within 50 miles of your destination refreshing AI traffic which you can do from the report page.This should ensure that the AI traffic are using the same runway and in the same direction as you.Some add-on sceneries allow you to select which runways you want to use - make sure that you do not have any conflicts in that department.

 

One long established tip is that when flying flights up to 3/4 hours duration before taking off make a note of your arrival weather(RW pilots get this info too)Then when you get your arrival ATIS you can then compare the two of them.You may find some small differences but at least you can be sure that the same weather is being seen by all elements in the FS.FS itself,RC and The AS program!

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Be sure all of your service packs for AS2012 are installed. Check the forum here on AVSIM. Also be sure your FSUIPC4 is current from this page as it has been changed a few times to accommodate some work arounds in AS2012 from timing issues and the conditions that DWC mode immposes.

 

AS DWC mode forces global weather mode meaning that the weather at your aircraft location is what is written to FS worldwide. At 40 nm out when RC looks at ai patterns to determine the assigned runway the ai patterns at destination are responding to the weather imposed according to your aircraft location 40 nm out. As you approach destination the weather from your moving aircraft is imposed at destination and ai patterns could change under certain limits of runway headings. The new patterns could be different from what RC saw when it assigned the runway.

 

This is a limitation in FSX only. See if a new FSUIPC4 solves the problem. Today it is version 4.827 to install first followed by the interim 4.828.

 

Also, while RC does recheck the ai patterns at least once on approach, and your assignment changes if you use vectors, it may not be a timely pattern change. If no ai were present when RC first assigned the destination runway RC used the (imposed) weather reported plus runway best properties to assign it. If ai later use a different runway it might be caught during initial vectoring.

 

With the latest AS and FSUIPC changes, if you get ATIS at 50 nm out RC will report the METAR weather to be imposed as your aircraft gets to the destination but this still is an ai operation estimate as ai will accept tail winds to some degree.

 

As you are on the last three miles or so of landing RC will freeze taxiing aircraft in your path but but not aircraft in a take-off state.

 

AFAIK aismooth v1.2 for FSX and FS9 in the FSX utilities section will not help in this instance but it does offer landing aircraft separation from you in addition to ai from each other at a separation you determine in its settings. It also has the advantage if you set separation far enough apart to let ai in the take-off queue depart between landing ai speeding things up in reducing the take-off queue as you take your place in it.

 

Collision avoidance is primarily an FS responsibility that is dors not seem to do very well.

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My Friends,

Last night I installed AISmooth 1.2 and I installed SP1 for AS2012 andafter make changes to AS2012 I tried for the second time for goeing from Vancouver (CYVR) to Los angeles (KLAX) and it was worst ever!!! I start the flight and after 2 hours and 50 minute when I start to descend to KLAX everything was normal and in the last state of landing with ILS approach to 06L my Tcas start to alert me that one aircraft in behind me! I was in front and on the glide slope and I used AISmooth for doing something for me in that situation but this time was my bad luck too! the behind aircraft was Korean Air that landing on 06L like me and again we collision each other in the air!!! ahhhhh!

It was the second time that I couldn't done my flight from CYVR to KLAX and it is the worst thing I saw in FSX!

 

Shouldn't Radar Contact OR AISmooth force the second airplane on the hold?!

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Yes, RC should but in some situations does not. In aismooth settings be sure to turn on user plane response so your aircraft is recognised.

 

Test on a short flight between busy airports to insure it is working. The New York area with flights to Connecticut is a nice busy route with short legs. KBDL (near Hartford, CN) to KLGA or KJFK is fairly short AT ABOUT 200 NM.

 

Here are chart resources:

http://flightaware.c...KBOS/procedures

http://flightaware.c...KJFK/procedures

http://flightaware.c...KLGA/procedures

 

In FSBuild I auto generated this plan of 220 nm (dec 2010 airac). I selected 22000 for a cruise altitude and the altitude peaks over roughly the BDL VOR. This .pln file should work in FS9 and FSX. You'll be busy :) KLGA is very busy most of the day. LGA offers two perpendicular 7,000 foot runways long enough for regional jets:

 

http://flightaware.c...ORT DIAGRAM/pdf

 

KBOS PATSS1.DEDHM BDL.HAARP1 KLGA

 

[flightplan]

title=KBOS to KLGA

description=KBOS, KLGA

type=IFR

routetype=3

cruising_altitude=22000

departure_id=KBOS, N42* 21.46', W071* 00.23',+000020.00

departure_position=22L

destination_id=KLGA, N40* 46.38', W073* 52.21',+000021.00

departure_name=GEN_EDWARD_LAWRENCE_LOGAN_INTL

destination_name=LA_GUARDIA

waypoint.0=KBOS, A, N42* 21.46', W071* 00.23', +000000.00,

waypoint.1=TJAYY, I, N42* 18.27', W070* 57.59', +01000.00,

waypoint.2=BRRRO, I, N42* 20.05', W070* 48.05', +03000.00,

waypoint.3=CHWDH, I, N42* 19.15', W070* 44.53', +04000.00,

waypoint.4=GLLET, I, N42* 16.35', W070* 42.12', +05000.00,

waypoint.5=BONNZ, I, N42* 12.49', W070* 43.30', +06000.00,

waypoint.6=BTENA, I, N42* 11.11', W070* 47.23', +07000.00,

waypoint.7=ROEDE, I, N42* 10.59', W070* 54.42', +09000.00,

waypoint.8=PATSS, I, N42* 10.48', W071* 08.26', +12000.00,

waypoint.9=DEDHM, I, N42* 08.42', W071* 22.37', +16000.00,

waypoint.10=BDL, V, N41* 56.27', W072* 41.18', +22000.00,

waypoint.11=VALRE, I, N41* 26.07', W073* 52.54', +15000.00,

waypoint.12=HAARP, I, N41* 06.58', W073* 35.36', +08000.00,

waypoint.13=CRALY, I, N41* 04.37', W073* 37.33', +07000.00,

waypoint.14=LGA, V, N40* 47.01', W073* 52.06', +000000.00,

waypoint.15=KLGA, A, N40* 46.38', W073* 52.21', +000000.00,

 

 

 

Please note that LGA is a VOR on the field and if you take vectors or request an IAP to follow this route you can ignore it as a mandatory fly-over. Check the approaches. It is used for RWY 22\40 DME. 13 uses ILS DME.

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There is one thing else you can do, but it is payware. Use UT2 AI traffic, then on approach if there is an incurring aircraft, you can just zap it with CTRL-Shift-A, clearing your way. Call it the nuclear option :lol: I'm not sure if the other payware traffic programs has a similar feature, and I don't think there is a freeware option currently.


Thanks

Tom

My Youtube Videos!

http://www.youtube.com/user/tf51d

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The traffic zapper function is part of FSUIPC and is usable if the application registers the function or of the user has a paid registration. I don't think RC registers that function but you can easily check in the FSUIPC tab that allows you to assign hot keys to various FS functions.

 

It is not necessary to purchase a different traffic package to get this function but at most just a paid registration for all of the FSUIPC features.

 

That being said, that function as described in the manual is for "nuking" aircraft in front of or just to the sides of the aircraft nose. It would not help with overtaking aircract. I would assume UT2 might use that function, not sure.

 

For UT2 users be sure ai aircraft is spawned at the maximum distance so they can be observed by RC before approach makes an assignment.

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Hi,

 

Turn on in your FS settings under the realism tab,ignore collisions and crashes.

 

In AS ,what settings are you using?

 

I use DWC with the Force Destination weather option in order to avoid such problems.When you fly and set up your weather for the flight make a note of your weather at your arrival airport.Keep it safe.

 

When you get within the arrival airport area refresh the AI traffic in the weather program and that will ensure that the AI traffic is using the correct runwayfor the weather conditions.When you listen to the arrival airport ATIS it usually only has minor changes from you original weather which you noted earlier,unless you are flying sectors over 3hrs..

 

I have read that FS does not deal with light winds very well and if so that problem may not help you.Some add on airports can also feature adjustable choice of runways whilst some developers have been known to code arrival runways and departure runways.You need to check that out.

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RC via current FSUIPC versions gets weather directly from AS now from its METAR, not the current weather. RC sets its runway assignment by looking at ai traffic patterns as priority first at approach runway assignment and again at some point further in. If no ai are present then RC uses the METAR weather and best runway conditions.

 

FS ai will accept a tail wind of 5 knots (or greater for larger aircraft) choosing other options for best runway selection.

 

I suggest looking at the hifi sim support forum here for the recommended AS and FSUIPC settings.

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My Friends,

After many search finally I update the FSUIPC to the latest version and after that the collision described in this topic never happened again for me but another problem make me angry in these day:

 

I start the taxi and going to the runway for take off when the ATC (Radar Contact) ask me to line up with runway before take off sometimes another aircraft is crossing the same runway in th middle of the runway and for example 1/3 of it's fuselage in in the runway and it is crossing that then when ATC tell me I am cleared to take off then that Aircraft locked in its position and block the runway!!! If I wait, it never move and in this situation I can't take off the runway because anothe collision will happen!!! Ahhhhhh I hate that situation.

 

Any Idea that how ATC force that Aircraft don't enter the runway when I am going to line up the runway OR if I am lining up the runway ATC wait until that Aircraft go out the runway then Clear me for take off?

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My Friends,

After many search finally I update the FSUIPC to the latest version and after that the collision described in this topic never happened again for me but another problem make me angry in these day:

 

I start the taxi and going to the runway for take off when the ATC (Radar Contact) ask me to line up with runway before take off sometimes another aircraft is crossing the same runway in th middle of the runway and for example 1/3 of it's fuselage in in the runway and it is crossing that then when ATC tell me I am cleared to take off then that Aircraft locked in its position and block the runway!!! If I wait, it never move and in this situation I can't take off the runway because anothe collision will happen!!! Ahhhhhh I hate that situation.

 

Any Idea that how ATC force that Aircraft don't enter the runway when I am going to line up the runway OR if I am lining up the runway ATC wait until that Aircraft go out the runway then Clear me for take off?

 

That's probably the way the AFCAD is setup, I do it myself with some of my airport AFCADS. Basically it prevents AI backlog on a busy airport. Take Seattle for example, Aircraft landing on runway 16/34C stack up to the point the runway gets blocked because there's no break in departures on 16L/34R. Setting up the taxi path to allow this incursion keeps traffic moving. It's one of those compromises we have to endure with FS. Ideally FS should alternate clearance between takeoff and runway crossing like in real life, but unfortunately it doesn't.


Thanks

Tom

My Youtube Videos!

http://www.youtube.com/user/tf51d

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In the FSX utilities section of the AVSIM library this FS9 and FSX utility ai smooth version 1.2 allows you to separate incoming aircraft according to your specifications by placing them in a mutual holding pattern. By thinning out arrivals you can have interleaved arrival and departure traffic. This reduces runway congestion and take-off queue congestion especially due to the ai schedule catch up rush that occurs when a flight is loaded or ai is refreshed. In its optionsd turn off ATC speech and ATC messages to avoid confusion with RC.

 

In the FS9 utilities section FS9 Configurator version 1.6 (fs9cfg16.zip) has several features relating to ground traffic and other items. The version is for FS9.1. Of interest is that you can speed up (very slightly recommended) ai taxi speeds to allow faster ai clearing around runway exits.

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