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A quick fly by of Pro ATC

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I might add that the SD, route and STAR are drawn in the GPS and placed on the kneeboard by Pro ATC X automaticallly, so you can read them from there and make navigation and FMC adjustments if need be.

 

On the few routes I have tried, the ATC leaves you alone up to a point, but chimes in with occasional, unnecessary directions. More positively, it gives you the occasional 'direct to' clearance.

 

I also use PFE and think it's great (although I have not used it in combination with FDC). One of the advantages Pro ATC X will offer (once it's settled down) is simplicity. With a couple of clicks, away you go, with a flight plan that ATC fully assimilates including a stab at TA, regional background ATC chatter, flight deck ambience and cabin ambience. Easier and quicker than the default ATC system in some respects. The limited scripts and callsigns suggest that for me it will never replace PFE, but it may prove a nice and simple alternative when I'm not in the mood for the full PFE set-up (although, in fairness, PFE can be used in a simple mode, although I tend not to use it that way, which is my fault not PFE's).

 

Michael

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The ProATC SID/STARS should be the same as those found in... say, a PMDG 737 FMC. So, when ProATC tells you the runway you'll be departing and the SID, you just go into the FMC and enter the SID.

 

Hello Jim

If you are using updated Navdata for your FMC this may of may not match with whatever data ProATC uses, is there any indication how old this data is i.e what cycle.

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I don't find flying an approach from an AIRAC cycle improves the experience much. :P


Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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I don't find flying an approach from an AIRAC cycle improves the experience much

 

Hello

I don't find that being vectored whilst flying a published approach improves much either.

 

Why can ProATC not just ask the question "vectors or Full IAP" and leave you alone until completing the procedure then hand you off to Approach ?.

It seems to be a case of follow the ProATC script without any flexibility along the way.

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Guest firehawk44

Hello Jim

If you are using updated Navdata for your FMC this may of may not match with whatever data ProATC uses, is there any indication how old this data is i.e what cycle.

 

No. My understanding is they are making the AIRAC data the same so it will be compatible without you having to go in and modify data like I had to do for the frequency for ILS 28L at KSFO.

 

Best regards,

Jim

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I don't find that being vectored whilst flying a published approach improves much either.

 

 

nor me... i'm just saying - i'm not making excuses for anything :rolleyes:


Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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Jim,

forgive me to insist:

 

I wrote:

"I don't quite see why I should like the fact that I can edit airport data such as SID/STARS, and frequencies unless ProATC has them wrong."

 

You answered:

"If they are wrong you can go in and edit them. I like that flexibility. Babba has stated they are working on having current NAV data downloaded into the program (maybe via Navigraph?)."

 

But why are they wrong? And why is this "flexibility" necessary?

All applications depending on it have to use the same NAV data. Apparently ProATC is using its own database which may or may not be consistent with the other apps you are using. It is paramount for any app depending on it to have an updatable database (presumably Navigraph but Aerosoft is working on something new) so they can all rely on the same data. User flexibility (read: make data consistent) shouldn't be called for. The developer stating that "they are working on it" doesn't sound good. They should have done that before release.

 

Regards, Andreas

 

BTW: I think this thread "A quick fly by ..." has by far outlived its title after four weeks and 20 pages. How about "The Long Goodbye" (not the Altman movie but the Chandler novel)?


Regards,

Andreas Gutzwiller

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Sorry, one after thought about the 'unwanted' vectors during SD, en route or STAR. In fact, these are consistent with the phase of flight, and do not take you off the planned SD, route or STAR. Rather uncannily, they come just as the PMDG FMC is commanding the turn anyway and the autopilot/FD is executing it. Same for the GPS. So I do not have to do anything in response to the call and it's not that big a deal for me - and I hardly notice what with all the background chatter and other ambience provided by the program!

 

The main outstanding thing for me is the (invariably) very late descent clearance, plus apparently 'dummy' taxi instructions, and the odd missed cabin announcement. Overall I can forgive some of the design choices made by the developer in the interests of a really simple user experience (consistent with entertainment rather than a computer-based chore!).

 

Michael

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Guest firehawk44

But why are they wrong? And why is this "flexibility" necessary?

 

Andreas,

Like someone stated, this program was also made for FS9 and recently updated for FSX (never used the FS9 version). I assume they used the same NAV data they had for their FS9 program. Why the flexibility? Let's take a STAR going into Las Vegas as an example, any STAR. I remember several years ago traveling to Las Vegas and the pilot got permission to leave the set route and gave us a low flying flight over the Grand Canyon. Perhaps I could modify a STAR to provide that type of route before arriving at Lake Mead and into Runway 24L or 24R. I might also find a SID or STAR thru the Internet that wasn't added by Navigraph or ProATC. Maybe an old one not used anymore. I can add it or modify an existing one. Maybe I can do this or maybe I can't. They do have the database there that you can look at and modify. If they ever get the ability to add AIRAC data through Navigraph, don't know if that ability will still exist. If you are looking for me to say the ProATC database is outdated and there are errors, that's easy. Some errors have already been identified but the developer is in the process of fixing that issue. He admitted somewhere (believe on his forum) that he did not know about a program that could update the data so I think we have to cut the developers a little slack here. I would say most of the data is very accurate but one will occasionally discover an error just like they do for all commercial programs released to the FS community. It's extremely rare an SP isn't released sometime after the initial release. I and Michael found one and now we know exactly how to fix it. I fully agree and support Michael's comments above.

 

Respectfully,

Jim

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Guest firehawk44

So today I decided to fly the PMDG 737 using ProATC. I decided not to program the FMC for the full flight and just follow the vectors provided by ProATC. Unlike the default, the co-pilot cannot change headings, altitudes, speed, and raise the gear for you in the PMDG 737. But he has the ability to change the NAV and COM frequencies. So I had to manually change the heading when ATC gave me the vector. I was a little worried I would miss a waypoint and the flight would have to come all the way back to get to that waypoint like it happened on page one of this 20 some page post. So I opened up the moving map ProATC has that can be displayed during the flight. The moving map has all the waypoints and shows exactly your route and whether you're on course or way off course. I was on course. When I got my STAR at San Francisco, the moving map was also updated. So, the lack of having the flight plan showing up on the PFD, you can look at the plan as you fly. I have two monitors so I was able to have the moving map on one and my flight was done on the other. The flight went totally without incident. You have to stay on your toes though throughout the flight as you have to get the directions from ATC all the way and the co-pilot will not let you nap or grab a snack.

 

As the flight progressed though, I did enter some data in the FMC but did not activate it. Just wanted to see what would happen.

 

Best regards,

Jim

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Default FSX is jam packed with DPs/STARs. There's a list of departures/approaches with most airports, which include the transitions, IAFs, to FAFs, minimum altitudes, approach altitudes, and missed approach altitudes, plus theta/ro routing. These are what ATC uses. Where there are no DP/STAR ATC makes use of the computed approach pattern. Since the scenery in FSX defines all the frequencies, there should be no trouble getting them correct. If you overlay a set of STARs in FSX scenery they will mask out stock waypoints if there are any which are named the same. If you put a set of fixes in the FMC and/or put a set of waypoints [for an approach] in the plan, the FMC/GPS will follow them but ATC will not. But you can ignore ATC and get your landing clearance once you arrive at the appropriate runway, as long as you were cleared earlier for it.


Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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I like what I have now but realize many want much more for the $64 price. It's hard to make everyone happy.

 

I do not know if this was an attempt at sarcasm but anyway, Jim, you need to begin to understand that not everyone likes to beta test a product and on top of that,of all things, pay fat $64 for it. Now even if you "like what you have" and the developer was fair or very fair to you the relationship price /quality of the product is obscene no matter how you spin it.

 

.

Voxatc, if your flight plan is properly made it can even assign them to you automatically. It clearly is the best atc out there except maybe voices

 

I like voxatc a lot but it can get very expensive if you want better voices (Last time I checked it was $60 a voice.) I'm not sure it is the best out there.It's probably a matter of opinion.I for one like pfe more.

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So today I decided to fly the PMDG 737 using ProATC. I decided not to program the FMC for the full flight and just follow the vectors provided by ProATC. Unlike the default, the co-pilot cannot change headings, altitudes, speed, and raise the gear for you in the PMDG 737. But he has the ability to change the NAV and COM frequencies. So I had to manually change the heading when ATC gave me the vector. I was a little worried I would miss a waypoint and the flight would have to come all the way back to get to that waypoint like it happened on page one of this 20 some page post. So I opened up the moving map ProATC has that can be displayed during the flight. The moving map has all the waypoints and shows exactly your route and whether you're on course or way off course. I was on course. When I got my STAR at San Francisco, the moving map was also updated. So, the lack of having the flight plan showing up on the PFD, you can look at the plan as you fly. I have two monitors so I was able to have the moving map on one and my flight was done on the other. The flight went totally without incident. You have to stay on your toes though throughout the flight as you have to get the directions from ATC all the way and the co-pilot will not let you nap or grab a snack.

 

As the flight progressed though, I did enter some data in the FMC but did not activate it. Just wanted to see what would happen.

 

Best regards,

Jim

hi, can you drag the moving map to a second monitor, also where you able to select the star that proatc assigned you in the pmdg fmc and did the waypoints match up

 

 

thanks,jim


thank you,Jim

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Jim,

 

 

I can answer the second question. The two routes I did the SID/STAR's did not match up.

 

Cheers

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The database in use by ProATCX is clearly of some considerable vintage. I tried some routes into and out of ENGM and the SIDs/STARs used by ProATC were all replaced by the Norwegian authorities several years ago. Note: not amended...replaced. The present prodcedures in use for that airport simply do not appear in an up-to-date AIRAC. Many of the waypoints no longer exist, so it's not as if you could programme the procedure using individual waypoints.

 

Therefore, it is likely that the whole database is of the same age.

 

Therefore, the product is not compatible with anyone trying to use it with an aircraft equiped with and FMC using the current database.

 

Another example wherein the product simply has not been exposed to a suffciently rigorous test process. It should never have been released to market in its present state,

 

Andy

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