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EU rules publishers cannot stop you reselling your downloaded games

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Have you guys heard about this?

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-03-eu-rules-publishers-cannot-stop-you-reselling-your-downloaded-games

 

Long story short: No matter what the producers/retailers may claim, they cannot stop you from reselling your downloaded product, i.e. your lisence.

 

This could be HORRIBLE news for addon makers, I assume this also goes for addons and not simply standalone games, at least the article doesn't state "standalone games" clearly enough.

 

What do you guys think of this? I've never sold an addon, but I have quite a few that I never use so it might be an oppertunity to make back some lost cash, which I'll probably "re-invest" in other addons. Also I'm neither in the EU or the US so I don't know where this is applicable.

 

PS I'm terribly unsure which forum to post this in, admins feel free to move it to wherever it might fit better. I'm posting this thinking of FSX addons, but it might as well fit better in the "swap/sell" forums or the "Flight" forum for downloaded contents or X-plane-forum or various commercial forums or whatnot. Not sure, but I fly mostly FSX so I thought I should post it here.

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There is a group working on this in the states. Much harder with the US Imperial capitalist enviroment. They have also used Flight sim addons as one example.

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I don't know what to think of this, yes you should be able to sell anything you own or have purchased, but as far as software or DLC in most cases there is nothing to prevent you from keeping it on your rig and using it.


 

 

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One thing everyone should keep in mind. Although the law states that used products can be resold, it doesn't state that the companies have to support the product resale. Due to software product licensing, the license itself is only good for one use. So, we cannot stop the resale of products, but we still have the rights to decide to offer support or not for resold items. Our current policy is not to provide support on products that are resold.

 

Also these types of laws only force the developers to force tighter restrictions on obtaining and using the software. Game companies are already doing this in the U.S. by only offering content to those who purchased the software. Would you want a developer to impose such things as an 'always' online connection to use their software? or registration that requires online activation of your boxed products before use?

 

The law therefore will only make it harder for users to enjoy products as developers will only develop new methods to restrict this type of use. Some of you may like this decision, but reselling of software does more hurt to our hobby then help it.

 

Support your add-on developers and resellers by buying original software directly from them. Supporting their efforts will allow them to continue to produce addons in the future. Used software doesn't support anybody, but only the person purchasing the used software in a limited fashion.


Jeff Smith
Sales / Product Support
Flight One Software
'Like' Us on Facebook / Follow us on Twitter / My Blog - Being Reorganized

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There is a group working on this in the states. Much harder with the US Imperial capitalist enviroment. They have also used Flight sim addons as one example.

Combining "Imperial" as in Imperialists, and "Capitalist" to describe our legal processes and contract law doesn't really work and could be insulting to some. In our country, capitalist or otherwise, the copyright holder is shown a lot more support by our law than is the case elsewhere (and I might add, protections provided internationally by international agreement, including China and the EU). :t0104:

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Politics aside, no matter which country you're from it's a global thing I reckon. This EU law might just be a first of many. I think legislation will eventually move towards more freedom for the end consumer, or perhaps the market will sort that out for itself?

 

I for one am principally for not being told what to do with the product I buy, as in having the freedom to resell it. But on the other hand I can very clearly see that software manufacturers want to restrict it, as it might mean fewer buy new stuff.

 

Being a simple mind I tend to think of software as hardware, as in "if I buy a car I want to be allowed to resell it, who cares about the warranty". I can't really find a single argument that counters that, except that it would help the car makers survive in a tough free market, they would naturally sell more cars if people couldn't resell their old ones.

 

It's not such a silly argument if you look past the " a car is expensive and an investment" bit and see that it's transferrable to most everything else on sale. One could even argue it for a bottle of coke, even though I suppose nobody would be interested in a half empty bottle I've opened. :)

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One thing everyone should keep in mind. Although the law states that used products can be resold, it doesn't state that the companies have to support the product resale. Due to software product licensing, the license itself is only good for one use. So, we cannot stop the resale of products, but we still have the rights to decide to offer support or not for resold items.

 

Jeff, right you are. Plus add the fact that if we turn off the activation for the product it is essentially of no use. So those that are entertaining the thought of reselling software, it would be good to keep these things in mind.

This business is as a few others noted, small, competitive (in that small space) and long development cycles with generally marginal returns. Add the fact that there is indeed piracy and others that believe if they bought a product once, they have the right to install it or transfer it into any other platform they deem. So, in the EU, this might apply, but as Jeff says.... we don't have to support them. Look deeper into that statment and I think you will find our position.

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As Long as original users delete the "sold" software I see no reason why it should cause any significant issues. Using the second hand car analagy you would not expect the same support as if you were the original owner !!! Maybe I am missing something here perhaps?

 

This would actually make it more likely to buy new versions of software as I have had the experience with the previous one so that should positively affect producers .

Brian Harrison ( UK)

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Perhaps developers could implent a license transfer policy, where the original end-user can transfer his/her copy to another account (the person buying the "used" software), with the understanding that the second purchaser registers with that developer and they could even charge a small fee as a "royalty." It might just work. With this option everybody is happy, no?


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

AMD 5600X, RTX3070, 32MB RAM, 2TB SSD

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From my point of view this decision is a good thing for the end user. Too long has the pendulum been wholesale swinging towards one side of the equation.

 

I had always been able to on sell used software in the decades past (namely games) to recoup some of the cost after I had ceased to use the product. I used the cash to purchase newer games or product. This gave the disused software a potential residual market value. To a degree you can still do that, but it has become increasingly limiting as Large Global Distributors introduce tighter and more restrictive DRM mechanisims to "Prevent piracy", thus locking out users from realizing the "perceived residual value of the product. How many of you out there have software you no longer use that is locked up in DRM licensing restriction that makes the software useless? This is offset somewhat lately as the battle to control the global market and the impact of recessional spending, has led to severe discounting and "holiday specials" (persumably to assist cash flow), - but the end user still has no control over the end product once they fork out their discounted dollars.

 

As for the Aviation Simulator industry I do not believe that, in the short term, things will change if Developer decides not to support a resold aircraft or utility or scenery - that is the present condition now. The difference being that presently the legal end user is made to sometimes jump thru hoops just in order to activate the product and this does have an annoyance impact - one of more immediate frustration than anything else.

 

But for arguments sake, lets say I have a considerable investment of aviation software on my computer and I just get tired of it, or become disabled or whatever and I want to on sell the products or gift the whole she-bang to my nephew who I know has a growing interest that I would like to foster. Presently I cannot legally sell any of the software - I cannot even gift it to them and allow them to use it legally. (This argument is hypothetical only - I am not intending to sell or gift anything.) I wonder if this new EU ruling will eventually have an impact that would allow me to do this.

 

and finally in response to a very clear a careful post from Jeff Smith;

"The law therefore will only make it harder for users to enjoy products as developers will only develop new methods to restrict this type of use. Some of you may like this decision, but reselling of software does more hurt to our hobby then help it"

 

Jeff, with all due respect, a Hobby is not necessarily a commercial enterprise. However, a hobby can become one if the user base is large enough. I would counter your well reasoned rational with another viewpoint. Commercial software in this case has arisen out of a perceived demand for better quality add-ons within a now limiting and stale programme that badly needs redevelopment. Your statement implies that any change to the current software restriction methods will hurt the hobby. I think not. Much like the Gold Rush era of the 1800's eventually all the gold worth extracting will have been extracted - the town/region dies - life goes on., new products arise, new models of selling too.

 

Ray

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Good :-)

 

There is nothing worse than buying a downloadable game, finding it's complete crap, and not being able to resell it!

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Sorry. EU law doesnt trump US law unless it is international. This thread is not going to anyone any good and personally, it should not be left to stand. This is nothing but a powder keg that no one will win over.

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Good :-)

 

There is nothing worse than buying a downloadable game, finding it's complete crap, and not being able to resell it!

But you would be willing to sell it to someone else. Hmmm...

 

Sorry. EU law doesnt trump US law unless it is international. This thread is not going to anyone any good and personally, it should not be left to stand. This is nothing but a powder keg that no one will win over.

Relax Jim... people are entitled to opinions and if anyone gets nasty, as one just did, they will be banned from the topic (as he was). Just don't contribute to the problem. Okay?

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Relax Jim... people are entitled to opinions and if anyone gets nasty, as one just did, they will be banned from the topic (as he was). Just don't contribute to the problem. Okay?

 

Just looking at the obvious Tom. Been around here a long time and its a pattern I recognize. Thanks for staying on top of it.

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I think the large majority of Flight Sim users are in a way hoarders, we wouldn't be interested in selling off our third party software. The few that do would be the casual user that tried the hobby out and found it wasn't for them, and are looking to get some of their investment back

 

One thing everyone should keep in mind. Although the law states that used products can be resold, it doesn't state that the companies have to support the product resale. Due to software product licensing, the license itself is only good for one use. So, we cannot stop the resale of products, but we still have the rights to decide to offer support or not for resold items. Our current policy is not to provide support on products that are resold.

 

I very much agree with this. I recognize how difficult it would be for third party developers to be able to manage resale software in your databases.


Matthew Kane

 

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