Determining which SID or STAR to use

[abh_jc_03 0]

I am not sure if this is really a good question or not but I am trying to choose a STAR for (SBGL) and there are about 19 options. Some say N/A for ARR runway and others work but they do large loops, "Z" like turns and criss cross patterns. I don't think that is suppose to occur specially with the 747. It is no small GA. How do I know which STAR or SID to use? Anybody have any input?

[PHXMD-11 86]

How do I know which STAR or SID to use? Anybody have any input?

 

Determine which runway is being used for departing aircraft by use of the ATIS. Then when you select the runway in the FMC, it will filter the procedures to those that are available for that runway. You need the airport charts for this so you can determine which DP is pointed in whatever direction of your flight is. These are avaialbe over the internet. For the US, you can use flightaware.com. For Europe, use EuroControl.

 

You can also get full IFR routes from flightaware.com or vataware.com. I would recommend FSBuild for a complete flight planner. It will determine which DP/STAR to use based on the runway you select.

[abh_jc_03 0]

I chose RWY10Z and all the STARS were still available but when I click on some they said no ARR runway available. Normally in my FMC I choose the runway which then filters which STARS can be used for that runway but this time it is not doing that.

[abh_jc_03 0]

The STARS and SIDS on my FMC which was updated MAY2012 on Navigraph are completely different than Jeppsen charts. I have none of the STARS or SIDS that they have. I don't know why I don't have them since my Navigraph is fairly recent. I don't know what the FMC is doing because there aren't even charts online for the names in the PMDG 747 FMC. Any thoughts?

[voske 36]

These are the STARs in my SBGL.txt file (cyle 1207, revision 3):

STAR ADA1A.10

STAR ADA1A.15

STAR ADA1A.28

STAR ADA1B.10

STAR ADA1B.15

STAR ADA1B.28

STAR AKNU1A.10

STAR AKNU1A.15

STAR AKNU1A.28

STAR AKNU1B.10

STAR AKNU1B.15

STAR AKNU1B.28

STAR AREN1A.10

STAR AREN1A.15

STAR AREN1A.28

STAR AREN1B.10

STAR AREN1B.15

STAR AREN1B.28

STAR BBC1B.15

STAR CIDE1A.15

STAR CIDE1A.28

STAR CIDE1B.15

STAR CIDE1B.28

STAR CIDE1C.10

STAR CIDE1C.15

STAR CIDE1D.10

STAR CIDE1D.15

STAR DOGS1A.10

STAR DOGS1A.15

STAR DOGS1A.28

STAR DOGS1B.10

STAR DOGS1B.15

STAR DOGS1B.28

STAR DOGS1C.10

STAR DOGS1C.15

STAR DOGS1D.10

STAR DOGS1D.15

STAR ESMA1A.10

STAR ESMA1A.15

STAR ESMA1A.28

STAR ESMA1B.10

STAR ESMA1B.15

STAR ESMA1B.28

STAR KUBE1A.10

STAR KUBE1A.15

STAR KUBE1A.28

STAR KUBE1B.10

STAR KUBE1B.15

STAR KUBE1B.28

STAR KUBV1A.10

STAR KUBV1A.15

STAR KUBV1A.28

STAR KUBV1B.10

STAR KUBV1B.15

STAR KUBV1B.28

STAR LOBI1A.15

STAR LOBI1A.28

STAR LOBI1B.15

STAR LOBI1B.28

STAR LOBI1C.10

STAR LOBI1C.15

STAR LOBI1D.10

STAR LOBI1D.15

STAR MALP1A.10

STAR MALP1A.15

STAR MALP1A.28

STAR MALP1B.10

STAR MALP1B.15

STAR MALP1B.28

STAR PUBS1A.10

STAR PUBS1A.15

STAR PUBS1A.28

STAR PUBS1B.10

STAR PUBS1B.15

STAR PUBS1B.28

STAR ROPA1A.10

STAR ROPA1A.15

STAR ROPA1A.28

STAR ROPA1B.10

STAR ROPA1B.15

STAR ROPA1B.28

STAR VTR1A.10

STAR VTR1A.15

STAR VTR1A.28

STAR VTR1B.10

STAR VTR1B.15

STAR VTR1B.28

STAR VTR1C.10

STAR VTR1C.15

STAR VTR1D.10

STAR VTR1D.15

You could compare this list to your SBGL.txt file.

 

Also, there was an issue with the cycle 1206. Therefore, it was revised. I don't know whether this has anything to do with your issue.

[abh_jc_03 0]

I do have all of those in my FMC. I am going to assume that each number at the end is associated with the runway. I don't know the difference between 10Z and 10Y but I guess I can play around with that. I believe I saw something on the internet relating the "Z" to localizer.

 

Here is the website I was looking at for SBLG charts and none of the above STARS are on the list. Worst case scenario, I just don't fly to SBGL.

 

fsim.com.br/ceaero/ope/sbgl.pdf

 

(Can search on google for "SBGL charts" also if pdf doesn't work.)

[voske 36]

The charts available on that website are outdated.

[abh_jc_03 0]

Where should I go then? I would like to fly realistically.

[voske 36]

The official charts are available at http://www.aisweb.aer.mil.br/?i=cartas.

 

Sometimes you can find charts by searching for the AIP of the country (found it on Google by searching Brazil and AiP).

[abh_jc_03 0]

Okay, thank you for the website. I had taken a look at it and as I figured it wouldn't be in English but I will figure what is important. Thank you again.

[Jackal. 25]

You'll find selecting SID/STARs is a lot easier if you build a flightplan.

 

Use this : http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/

 

so let's input KSFO - EGLL.

 

rfinder gives us :

 

KSFO SID LIN J84 MVA J56 TCH J154 OCS J94 ONL J148 MCW J16 BUF J547 SYR J29 BGR J595 YSJ J573 YYG J509 YQY J575 YYT NATS NETKI DCT NIBOG UN551 BEL UL10 HON STAR EGLL

 

Which looks something like this:

 

 

You can go to simroutes and export it to the PMDG: http://www.simroutes.com

 

What SID to use is usually denoted by the first item on the FPL. In this instance it's "LIN".

 

http://yurik.flightgear.ru/KSFO.pdf

 

Search that document for "LIN". You'll find "LIN" on the chart of a few SIDs there. So if you were going to depart from RWY 28R you would go for the CUIT2.LIN departure or RWY 10L the DUMB6.LIN departure and so on.

 

For the DUMB6.LIN you would select DUMB6 RWY 10L and choose the LIN transition in the FMC.

 

 

 

For the STAR our final waypoint on the flightplan was HON. So search this document for HON (the document is a Jeppview PDF of EGLL, which contains all the SID/STARs inside. Just Google XXXX airport Jeppview it's usually the first link).

 

http://www.virtualiroma.it/eventi/VARLONDRA02/EGLL.pdf

 

Great so if we search HON we can see that we can expect the BNN3A arrival. Now for Heathrow the STARs don't really change for the runways, it would be different for other airports. But I guess the same principle applies.

 

 

I hope this gave you a rough idea!

[abh_jc_03 0]

I tried to use that website for a flight from KSFO to KMEM and it gave me a LIN (SID) but when I go online to airnav for the charts there is no LIN departure.

 

I don't even have a LIN in my departure page on my FMC so I guess I can't use that as a choice for SID.

[Jackal. 25]

I tried to use that website for a flight from KSFO to KMEM and it gave me a LIN (SID) but when I go online to airnav for the charts there is no LIN departure.

 

I don't even have a LIN in my departure page on my FMC so I guess I can't use that as a choice for SID.

 

 

Just like in there. You would select the DUMB6 departure from RWY 19L/R. Then in FMC it will give you another option for which transition to choose, in which you would chose the LIN transition.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I tried to use that website for a flight from KSFO to KMEM and it gave me a LIN (SID) but when I go online to airnav for the charts there is no LIN departure.

 

I don't even have a LIN in my departure page on my FMC so I guess I can't use that as a choice for SID.

 

Here in the States, the departures have their own names, with various transitions inside of them. Outside of the States, the departures/arrivals are often listed as [TRANSITION][Number + Letter].

 

If you were looking for a SID through Linden outside of the States, you'd be looking for LIN3A (the number + letter at the end are just revision numbers, I believe). Since the SID is in the States, though, you'd have to actually look at the various procedures to find which one uses LIN.

 

 

(Sorry to the ICAOers. I don't fly there, so if I hacked up how procedures are actually named, I'm sorry.)

[FSXReality 1]

Z and Y designators (they start from the end of the alphabet and work backwards as far as necessary) are not different approaches, they simply mean that the same approach to a runway has a different structure; this may include things from VOR used as IAF (initial approach fix) to the decision altitude. One other difference may be from where the distances are being used from (ILS or VOR). So, in descent/arrival planning, you must be aware of NOTAMS because a VOR may be unserviceable so that means you can't use ILS10Y, for example, but rather X.

 

Italy has lots of these kinds of approaches, for example.

 

As for your question, it's good practice to wack up the NAV display screen and put it on PLAN view, about 20NM. That way, you can view the route as a dashed white line/magenta line (when executed). Also, don't forget to REselect the approach/runway to disable it. You might be selecting two or three and creating a massively complicated departure by mixing them together. Simply select runway, then SID, then transition if needs be, look at the navigation display to see if it suits your routing, if so exec, if not, reselect the sid to deactivate it, and reselect the runway to deactivate that should it change.

 

Also, don't do Vspeed settings until runway/departure set or you will delete them by selecting/changing a runway.

 

Best,

Dan