Adding missing airports to the "Plan G" flight-planner

[RoboRay 126]

Plan G, combined with GMap, is a wonderful tool for crafting flight-plans and using them in MS Flight. For an introduction to this, please see this thread: http://forum.avsim.n...e-them-in-gmap/

 

However, these tools were initially created for FSX and the data they use for airports and navaids is a little outdated compared to what is used in Flight. A number of users have noticed that Flight features some newer airports that are not in Plan G's database, simply because they didn't exist when the FSX database was built. It's hard to make a flight-plan if the planning software doesn't understand where you are trying to go.

 

It is possible to add user-created Waypoints to Plan G and these can be identified as Airports. I would like to start building a list of airports in Flight that are missing from Plan G, so that I can build a custom User Waypoints file including them. This file will be made available for public download, so that we can all easily access those airports directly in Plan G.

 

All I need to know is the name of the airport and it's ICAO code, both available from the Map in Flight. It will be helpful if you also specify if the airport is land or water-based. As you encounter airports that are not in Plan G's database, please post them here.

 

I'll start with one of my own:

Henley (75AK) - land

[Guest]

Do you also want water airports (sorry, I just can't remember how they are called...)? For instance I found one in Flight that isn't in Plan-G: Point Thompson Sea Ice Airstrip, AA50, to the right of 8AK7. Or shall we take care off land based airports first?

 

And what about airports that are in Plan-G but not in Flight? Like Brown Low Point, AK99, to the right of the airport mentioned above? Mention them anyway or forget about them?

[RoboRay 126]

Land or water, go ahead and list them. Plan G actually lets you tag Waypoints as land or water airports, with appropriate icons. It would be helpful to specify them by type when submitting, too. Good catch. :)

 

As to items in Plan G but not Flight, I don't know if there is a way to delete them or not, but it can't hurt to go ahead and identify them. If you see them, please list them. Maybe we can figure something out.

[Guest]

New 'problem': Tetlin in Flight is 3T4 while in Plan-G it is called 4AK8. It IS the same airport but with a different code.

 

To make it even more complicated... In Flight 4AK8 DOES exist, but it's an airport called Napaimute Pioneer Airfield in Flight and it's to the right of Aniak, PANI... which 1. isn't even close and 2. which can't be found in Plan-G!

 

So you can add 4AK8 Napaimute Pioneer Airfield to the list of missing airports but you have to beware that 4AK8 does already exist in Plan-G... as Tetlin... Yeah, complicated, isn't it?

 

EDIT

Lignite, 11Z is missing in Flight.

St. Michael, 5S8 is missing in Flight.

New Koliganek, KGK is missing in Flight.

Point Mac, AK36 is missing in Flight.

 

Healy River is PAHV in Flight but HRR in Plan-G.

St. Michael is PAMK in Flight but SMK in Plan-G.

Emmonak is PAEM in Flight but ENM in Plan-G.

Alakanuk is PAUK in Flight but AUK in Plan-G.

 

There is one Kotlik in Flight (PFKO) but two in Plan-G (KOT and 2A9).

 

There is one Manokotak in Plan-G (17Z) but two in Flight (17Z and PAMB).

 

The list with different codes may become pretty long, I am afraid... I will stop posting them: I think the most important thing to do is to post airports that are in Flight but missing in Plan-G... I am beginning to wonder how many airports are really missing in Plan-g: maybe most of them simply have a different code and that's why people can't find them...?

 

Turinski Airstrip, AK14 is missing in Plan-G (just above 36AK).

Robin's Landing, 50AK is missing in Plan-G ((also above 36AK).

[RoboRay 126]

Oh boy...

 

According to AirNav, 4AK8 actually is Napaimute Pioneer Airfield. So, Flight is right.

 

We're going to need a deletion method for Plan G's database to fix that one.

[RoboRay 126]

The list with different codes may become pretty long, I am afraid... I will stop posting them: I think the most important thing to do is to post airports that are in Flight but missing in Plan-G... I am beginning to wonder how many airports are really missing in Plan-g: maybe most of them simply have a different code and that's why people can't find them...?

 

Hmmm... I wonder if it might actually be simpler to just create a database of all Flight airports and import that into Plan G, rather than try to correct all the deltas from the FSX version.

 

Plan G doesn't seem to let you create a navaid as a user waypoint, though... They can be added as a custom waypoint, but any built-in functionality Plan G has for working with designated navaids will not work with them.

 

I guess I need to think about this a little more. :Thinking:

[RagTag 0]

I took a look at the table data with the hopes that I could just edit the tables directly. There are a lot of tables with a lot of data that I'm not sure how to get from the real world. For example Tetlin which is mentioned above is at Latitude: 63.1338250637054, Longitude: -142.521933317184, MagVar: 332, Main runway heading: 168 and Main Runway Length: 518.16

 

I'm just not sure how to relate the MagVar to the runway heading or what the length of the runway is. Maybe meters which means that the Elvation of 1623 is also meters? The Latitude and Longitude format is also unfamiliar to me.

 

At the very least we would need that data above, (and a little more), for each airport added. Removing an airport would be simple as would changing simple things like the ID.

[RoboRay 126]

The physical data for US airports is all public-record stuff, and can be obtained from sites like Airnav. Example, for Tetlin: http://www.airnav.com/airport/3T4

 

Everything you are seeing in the database should be in that listing, with minor variation in things like LAT/LONs (depends on where you are standing) and you can expect some changes over time.

 

If a Flight airport turns out to not be in Airnav, the information is accessible in-game from Flight, though a bit cumbersome to work with. What doesn't show up in the Airport Data window (the LAT/LONs) can be found by looking at the little hand-held GPS in the Stearman's cockpit.

 

What are you using to view the raw data? From the manual, I'm under the impression that the Plan G editor only looks at the "User Waypoints" file, not the main database. I'll be heading home from work soon, so I can check it out myself.

[RagTag 0]

The physical data for US airports is all public-record stuff, and can be obtained from sites like Airnav. Example, for Tetlin: http://www.airnav.com/airport/3T4

 

Everything you are seeing in the database should be in that listing, with minor variation in things like LAT/LONs (depends on where you are standing) and you can expect some changes over time.

 

If a Flight airport turns out to not be in Airnav, the information is accessible in-game from Flight, though a bit cumbersome to work with. What doesn't show up in the Airport Data window (the LAT/LONs) can be found by looking at the little hand-held GPS in the Stearman's cockpit.

It looks like the runway length is in meters and the elevation in ft. The Lon and Lat are not carried out to the same precision but that may not matter. I still don't get the heading or mag var values.

 

What are you using to view the raw data? From the manual, I'm under the impression that the Plan G editor only looks at the "User Waypoints" file, not the main database. I'll be heading home from work soon, so I can check it out myself.

I'm using Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio to view the database which looks to be a SQLServer Compact edition one. The database I using is the one created by the program from FSX data. i.e.PlanG_FSX.sdf

 

I'm headed home in a 20mins or so and I may take a look further when I get home. I would expect that a crude and quick C# or VB program could be written to add, change or delete from that FSX table. Nav aids and other airport data would be a whole other can of worms.

[RoboRay 126]

It looks like the runway length is in meters and the elevation in ft. The Lon and Lat are not carried out to the same precision but that may not matter.

 

For our purposes, no, it doesn't have to be very precise. We won't see tiny LAT/LON differences on our screens, in Plan G or when loaded into GMap.

 

I still don't get the heading or mag var values.

 

I'm not sure about the one you mentioned... 17 isn't even close to a runway heading in the Airnav listing for 3T4. The MAG VAR looks way off, too. Will have to figure out how they are doing it.

 

That can be done with trial & error using the manual Waypoint adding, then looking at that database to see what the dialog box values generate.

 

I'm using Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio to view the database which looks to be a SQLServer Compact edition one. The database I using is the one created by the program from FSX data. i.e.PlanG_FSX.sdf

 

I'm headed home in a 20mins or so and I may take a look further when I get home. I would expect that a crude and quick C# or VB program could be written to add, change or delete from that FSX table. Nav aids and other airport data would be a whole other can of worms.

 

Navaid and airport data, I can get. It's the database hacking that's beyond my experience. Maybe we can get this working together.

[RoboRay 126]

OK, have been messing with Plan G a little bit. Creating new airports is going to be trivial, if we add them as User Waypoints. Here is what I did for Henley (circled in dark blue)...

 

 

And this is all the information I needed, which is available from public sources or in-game...

 

 

Plan G filled in the Elevation automatically, as I have loaded the DEM files for elevation data. It also filled in the Mag Var for me. I don't know if it's exactly right, but it's probably close enough for Flight's purposes.

 

I can add runway length to the Notes, as well.

[FrankFasi 0]

So, once someone adds all the missing ones, would be easy enough to identify, and share, whatever table in Plan-G stores all of the user waypoints?

[RoboRay 126]

So, once someone adds all the missing ones, would be easy enough to identify, and share, whatever table in Plan-G stores all of the user waypoints?

 

That is the plan. Plan-G has an option to export a CSV file containing your User Waypoints. If you import the file into your copy of Plan G, all the waypoints will appear.

 

The only problem I see with that is any duplicates, like J found, where the same identifier code is being used for an "old" airport in the FSX database but Flight has assigned to a "new" airport it's using.

 

EDIT: After some experimenting...

 

Plan G does let you assign a duplicate locator code to an "airstrip" User Waypoint. However, testing this led me to discover that you can't search for these codes as an Airport. Apparently, the "airstrip" designation for the waypoint is purely to set the icon. To search for an "airstrip" that's been added, you have to search for it specifically as a User Waypoint.

 

It also seems that you cannot create a flight plan that begins or ends at one of these "airstrips." At least, I can't figure out how to do it. The right-click menu for them doesn't have an option to start a flight plan, and you can't use the "Quick Plan" button because it only searches the Airport codes, not the ones in your User Waypoints.

 

This approach may not be workable after all.

[RagTag 0]

That is the plan. Plan-G has an option to export a CSV file containing your User Waypoints. If you import the file into your copy of Plan G, all the waypoints will appear.

The database could also be released but it would overwrite any other "custom" way points a user has added so maybe the better approach would be to do the CSV file.

 

The only problem I see with that is any duplicates, like J found, where the same identifier code is being used for an "old" airport in the FSX database but Flight has assigned to a "new" airport it's using.

 

If I know what they are and what the right info should be I can easily fix the data. If the way point airports you are adding end up as the same format as the master data I could also just add them to the master data.

 

Basically if someone supplies me with the required data I will edit the master database and make it available. Just tell me which ones to delete, change or add and it's a minor task to "fix" the master FSX data base. By changing the master we will not be messing we anyone's way point data. It may take a while but I'm sure we can have a continuing process to improve the master FSX data.

[RoboRay 126]

The database could also be released but it would overwrite any other "custom" way points a user has added so maybe the better approach would be to do the CSV file.

 

This is why I had hoped a simple CSV file would work, as it's not going to overwrite anything the user may already have done.

 

 

If I know what they are and what the right info should be I can easily fix the data. If the way point airports you are adding end up as the same format as the master data I could also just add them to the master data.

 

Basically if someone supplies me with the required data I will edit the master database and make it available. Just tell me which ones to delete, change or add and it's a minor task to "fix" the master FSX data base. By changing the master we will not be messing we anyone's way point data. It may take a while but I'm sure we can have a continuing process to improve the master FSX data.

 

From what I'm seeing now, this may be what we have to do. I'll be happy to assemble, validate and organize the change-data.