Dual engine start

[WYfox22 31]

Hey gents, have a question for you all. On the United 777 video from Just Planes, they are able to start both engines at the same time. Now this is the 772 with P&W engines. All the other videos I have only one engine is started at a time. Is this something specific to the -200 series and/or the P&W engines? Just curious - Dana Palmer

[EGLL77W 1,508]

Each time I flew United it was strange. Literally you hear the engines start, straight away flaps and immediate taxi. It's not like you hear the engines start, slight break then flaps, slight break then taxi. I know it's part of their SOP to start simultaneously for the 772. I don't think UA like to stick around ha! The 777's APU allows a double engine start, like the 744 you can start two at a time. The RRT800's can also start simultaneously but the GE90's (all models) require too much air for a double start.

 

 

Skip to 05:40 to see what I mean about the engine start. My flight back from LHR the taxi was even sooner!

[WYfox22 31]

LOL yeah UAL can be kind of strange :lol: That's been my experience on their T7 fleet as well. Thanks for the info regarding the GE-90s needing a lot of bleed air to get cranking. That's kind of what I was figuring, as all the rest of the JP vids I have no one else has the P&Ws installed. - Dana

[Los Pilotos 39]

It depends on the engines. For the GE engines we can only start one but for the RR we can start both at the same time. It does however from time to time give an aborted start (which the autostart takes care of though).

[FLEX1978 373]

Rene, if you don't mind me asking are you based out in the sandpit?

[aceridgey 330]

It depends on the engines. For the GE engines we can only start one but for the RR we can start both at the same time. It does however from time to time give an aborted start (which the autostart takes care of though).

 

Even if you can start the trents at the same time, do you do it?

[Los Pilotos 39]

Even if you can start the trents at the same time, do you do it?

 

Unless there's a reason the groundstaff doesnt want it, then yes.

[Airbus Commander 563]

Unless there's a reason the groundstaff doesnt want it, then yes.

Do you require an augmented crew to do both starts at once? I can't imagine having two pilots heads down at the same time during the push....

 

Ró.

[Los Pilotos 39]

Do you require an augmented crew to do both starts at once? I can't imagine having two pilots heads down at the same time during the push....

 

There is no requirement for an augmented crew, in fact the RR powered aircrafts are very rarely used for ULR flights as they down have a CRC. But as the autostart takes care of everything (apart from the oil pressure) theres not really any requirement for both to be heads in.

[Xtremme 26]

 

 

 

 

 

How did you capture ATC audio?

[Airbus Commander 563]

There is no requirement for an augmented crew, in fact the RR powered aircrafts are very rarely used for ULR flights as they down have a CRC. But as the autostart takes care of everything (apart from the oil pressure) theres not really any requirement for both to be heads in.

 

I see, well we have FADEC controlled auto-start in our Airbus' but we're still required to have the PM monitor the start and have his hand guarding the Engine Master Switch in case they should need to be shut-down at short notice. As such we only start one at a time.

 

From what I've heard about the 747's auto-start on two engines was that they had to have the augmented CM monitor the second engine in addition to the Co-pilot monitoring the first one with the captain heads up, when they started two at once, but maybe that's just company policy.

 

I'm surprised to hear that you only use your T7's for short haul ops, I would have expected at least some sectors to go above 8 hours....

 

Rónán O Cadhain.

[Los Pilotos 39]

I see, well we have FADEC controlled auto-start in our Airbus' but we're still required to have the PM monitor the start and have his hand guarding the Engine Master Switch in case they should need to be shut-down at short notice. As such we only start one at a time.

 

From what I've heard about the 747's auto-start on two engines was that they had to have the augmented CM monitor the second engine in addition to the Co-pilot monitoring the first one with the captain heads up, when they started two at once, but maybe that's just company policy.

 

I'm surprised to hear that you only use your T7's for short haul ops, I would have expected at least some sectors to go above 8 hours....

 

Rónán O Cadhain.

 

The only thing we would manually abort for is if there's no oil pressure before the EGT rises but that happens fairly quick after selecting start anyway. The rest (hot, hung, etc) the auto start will abort for automatically, motor if necessary, and try again (2 tries for RR and 3 for GE). Only if we get an EICAS will we have to take action. For a manual start we will only start one as we will need to abort manually if necessary.

 

We do use the 777's for ULR ops but only the GE powered ones (200LR and 300ER). The 'classics' are mainly used on europe, africa, middle east and west asia (we only have 9 200/200ER and 12 300's) and on top only about half of the 300ERs have CRC.

[Airbus Commander 563]

The only thing we would manually abort for is if there's no oil pressure before the EGT rises but that happens fairly quick after selecting start anyway. The rest (hot, hung, etc) the auto start will abort for automatically, motor if necessary, and try again (2 tries for RR and 3 for GE). Only if we get an EICAS will we have to take action. For a manual start we will only start one as we will need to abort manually if necessary.

 

We do use the 777's for ULR ops but only the GE powered ones (200LR and 300ER). The 'classics' are mainly used on europe, africa, middle east and west asia (we only have 9 200/200ER and 12 300's) and on top only about half of the 300ERs have CRC.

 

I see, what about a tail pipe fire? Will it abort the start and then crank the engine for that, or is that also a manual procedure? [Just curious].

 

I get what you're saying now about them only doing mid haul.

 

Rónán.

[Los Pilotos 39]

I see, what about a tail pipe fire? Will it abort the start and then crank the engine for that, or is that also a manual procedure? [Just curious].

 

I get what you're saying now about them only doing mid haul.

 

For the tail pipe or under cowling fire we do manually have to abort as well but I'm sure they have done the proper risk assessment and trust that we can multitask enough to shut down the engine if the ground crew calls us with that information. We do not cover the fuel control switches after selecting run and see oil psi rising either for normal ops.

 

They do do the odd augmented 8-10 hour sector to eg Beijing in which case we just use a 1st class set but that's more the exception than the rule. And also the shortest I've seen is a 300ER doing a 40 min flight to Doha

 

Rene, if you don't mind me asking are you based out in the sandpit?

Yes ;-)

[scandinavian13 5,192]

How did you capture ATC audio?

 

Male to male audio cable, a sound recorder and UAL's channel 9 connects in to the pilot-ATC transmissions through the flight (if the crew enables it).