PMDG Releases Statement Regarding EULAs for P3D

[vgbaron 3,627]

The elephant in the room is the underlying Microsoft - Lockheed Martin agreement

 

. If, as is believed, that agreement prevents P3D's use for personal/consumer entertainment., then it will have to be re-negotiated to allow an "enthusiast" version. That implies a willingness on both LM's and MS's parts. Thats raises the question what's really in it for either of them - a few more licence sales by LM and a perecentage of those for MS?

 

I didn't go back and reread it, but IIRC the EULA doesn't prevent P3D's *USE* for entertainment, it specifically prevents using retail/entertainment marketing avenues - which is why the academic version is not in violation.

 

Vic

[mgh 89]

I didn't go back and reread it, but IIRC the EULA doesn't prevent P3D's *USE* for entertainment, it specifically prevents using retail/entertainment marketing avenues - which is why the academic version is not in violation.

 

Vic

 

Section 1 of the Academic Licence limits use to Academic Education to ".. (3) in connection with Academic Education, (4) by students, instructors and staff associated with Licensee's Academic Education..."

 

Section 4.6 prohibits use non-Academic use

 

Section 14.1 defines Academic Education,

 

There is a significant difference between Education and Academic Education

 

EDIT

 

the other EULAs limit use "only for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment."

[alainneedle1 97]

[Zeus67 15]

Please remember that LM has a legal department as big if not bigger than Microsoft et al.

 

Any business decision regarding Prepar3D must have the approval of said legal dept. Discussing to whom LM is authorized to sell or not a P3D license is an exercise in futility since I am sure a room full of lawyers have already do so and green lighted the current licensing scheme.

 

This is the problem with PMDG. Its legal dept. is not sure that "they" (PMDG) are able to sell their products under the current LM licensing scheme and so they have NOT given the authorization to do so.

 

And if I read correctly PMDG is worried about the reaction of Boeing, who is the major Lockheed Martin's competitor, if they decide to give support to Prepar3D, a LM's product (FSX sold everything regarding ESP, lock, stock and barrel to LM.). Understandably they don't want to jeopardize that relationship for what they now see as a minor entry in the flighsim community.

 

All we have to do is wait and see what is the end result of the new talks between PMDG and LM.

[alainneedle1 97]

Please remember that LM has a legal department as big if not bigger than Microsoft et al.

 

Any business decision regarding Prepar3D must have the approval of said legal dept. Discussing to whom LM is authorized to sell or not a P3D license is an exercise in futility since I am sure a room full of lawyers have already do so and green lighted the current licensing scheme.

 

This is the problem with PMDG. Its legal dept. is not sure that "they" (PMDG) are able to sell their products under the current LM licensing scheme and so they have NOT given the authorization to do so.

 

And if I read correctly PMDG is worried about the reaction of Boeing, who is the major Lockheed Martin's competitor, if they decide to give support to Prepar3D, a LM's product (FSX sold everything regarding ESP, lock, stock and barrel to LM.). Understandably they don't want to jeopardize that relationship for what they now see as a minor entry in the flighsim community.

 

All we have to do is wait and see what is the end result of the new talks between PMDG and LM.

 

Quote from Randazzo of PMDG

 

"The third item is of larger concern to PMDG however as it relates to our basic concern to protect the investment our customers make in our products. We have not seen a commitment by Lockheed Martin to support the “casual simmer” beyond providing methods for users to obtain a license for Prepar3d through “wink and nudge” means. Lockheed Martin has been very careful not to enter the retail entertainment market with Prepar3d and has some very good reasons for not doing so. Without taking a step to enter the retail entertainment simulator market, Lockheed Martin has (in the opinion of PMDG and our counsel) left the door open so that they could, at any time change direction and enforce the terms of the EULA on Prepar3d thus requiring all Prepar3d users to prove compliance with their EULA. " end of quote.

[dons99 0]

I am an FSX user and have EVERY worthwhile Scenery and Addon to enhance my enjoyment, especially VFR flying and Heavy approach to and from airports. I also PONIED UP and paid the $199,00.00 to use Prepar3D for what it is meant to do , enhance my real world flight training. And that said I am grateful ORBX and FSDT as well as Aerosoft and Carenado , and some others have products with licenced dual installation. This enhances my training. Since I fly a Cessna 172 in the real world I would love to see A2A come out with theirs soon since as good as the Caranado Model is the radios are not up to par. That said I will always use FSX for entertainment and follow its successor what ever that is. BUT I appreciate that LM with Prepar3D has a product developed and marketed to guys like me who are willing to pay for and receive a professional training tool. That does "not make me" a hobbyist . I am, but I expect to pay for a commercial product I need and I appreciate it when the company delivers. I have the latest rendition of XPLANE10, but chose to buy the Lockheed Martin License for real world training.. Thus I will always enjoy PMDG for its quality in the right product, and be willing to pay for what I receive. Don

[asanal 32]

"the other EULAs limit use "only for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment."

 

What about "Therapeutic" purposes. I think no one challenge legally, against a person use P3D for escaping from daily pressure and keeping person calm, away from life pressure and keep persons gaining intellectual activities. :lol: :lol:

• 
   
  

[GHarrall 494]

For crying out loud........

 

The door has been opened by LM. Either walk through it or dont. Ambiguity is a sound business strategy apparently.

 

Whatever you decide is fine, but please STOP with the armchair lawyer nonsense.

 

P3D will either be a success despite its licence or it will go away.

 

If its a success, then all of this will be a moot point as all the devs (yes, even PMDG) will end up supporting it if thats where the money is.

 

My simulator experience will be on whatever platform I deem to be best for my needs. I fully expect P3D V2 to be that simulator. If addon devs want to support that choice then great. If not, my money will go to those that do. There is already plenty of them. Neither PMDG and Flight 1 or any other is not the be all and end all in the addon market. If there is a void, others will fill it.

 

What I dont appreciate is those coming on here giving it the large "I know best about the EULA and you cant use it" treatment.

 

LM have done everything they possibly can (without violating any terms) to welcome us to this evolving platform.

 

Instead of reading between the lines, being quiet, getting on with it and counting our blessings that we have a constantly developing FSX version 'next' we have descended into a stupid debate over EULA's and acting like amateur hour lawyers.

 

LM know what they are doing. The very fact that there is no check involved when purchasing any version of P3D should tell you everything you need to know. It is a very carefully considered strategy.

 

Bottom line, will you ever see P3D in Best Buy next to MW4 or Ratchet and Clank? No of course not. But then again, I dont think Flight Simming at our level has ever been about 'gaming' has it?

 

The very fact that you are reading this means you are not an average gamer or retail customer.

 

So, I say let P3D survive or let it die without the stupid legal discussion. Users will make their choices. This forum should let them do so without being scared and intimidated by people who seem to think the EULA software police will be knocking on the door within minutes of downloading.

 

Tom and AVSIM were right in the beginning. All legal speak regarding the EULA should be instantly removed..................

[BoHappy 12]

Well said Glenn

P3D is a great flight simulation software.

We should be grateful that we have continuation in this arena.

Just accept it for what it is and enjoy.

FSX is officially dead - Microsoft confirmed that.

 

The future is P3D ver 2 - and we should all be excited about it and rejoice it.

[luckyswede 0]

For crying out loud........

 

The door has been opened by LM. Either walk through it or dont. Ambiguity is a sound business strategy apparently.

 

Whatever you decide is fine, but please STOP with the armchair lawyer nonsense.

 

P3D will either be a success despite its licence or it will go away.

 

If its a success, then all of this will be a moot point as all the devs (yes, even PMDG) will end up supporting it if thats where the money is.

 

My simulator experience will be on whatever platform I deem to be best for my needs. I fully expect P3D V2 to be that simulator. If addon devs want to support that choice then great. If not, my money will go to those that do. There is already plenty of them. Neither PMDG and Flight 1 or any other is not the be all and end all in the addon market. If there is a void, others will fill it.

 

What I dont appreciate is those coming on here giving it the large "I know best about the EULA and you cant use it" treatment.

 

LM have done everything they possibly can (without violating any terms) to welcome us to this evolving platform.

 

Instead of reading between the lines, being quiet, getting on with it and counting our blessings that we have a constantly developing FSX version 'next' we have descended into a stupid debate over EULA's and acting like amateur hour lawyers.

 

LM know what they are doing. The very fact that there is no check involved when purchasing any version of P3D should tell you everything you need to know. It is a very carefully considered strategy.

 

Bottom line, will you ever see P3D in Best Buy next to MW4 or Ratchet and Clank? No of course not. But then again, I dont think Flight Simming at our level has ever been about 'gaming' has it?

 

The very fact that you are reading this means you are not an average gamer or retail customer.

 

So, I say let P3D survive or let it die without the stupid legal discussion. Users will make their choices. This forum should let them do so without being scared and intimidated by people who seem to think the EULA software police will be knocking on the door within minutes of downloading.

 

Tom and AVSIM were right in the beginning. All legal speak regarding the EULA should be instantly removed..................

 

+1 :p0503:

 

/Torbjörn

[henri5 16]

I own FSX, P3D and X-Plane 9, as well as PMDG's NGX and I have never read a EULA in my life. I just press the button accepting whatever it says. But I WOULD like to be able to use the NGX with P3D, although I still have FSX on my computer. I do understand the licence limitations for the COMPANIES like LM and PMDG who cannot act like I do vs EULAs (no one is going to sue me for cracking a program I paid for).

 

So if LM and PMDG and MS cannot come to an agreement, I hope some smart guy will come around and tell us poor users how to get the darn plane we paid for into P3D... :blink:

 

As an aside, last night I decided to get the Ultimate Terrain programs into P3D by dragging and dropping into the Migration program I also paid for, because I can't find the installers. It seemed to work OK, but the roads disappeared for an area where I think I earlier installed a roads improvement program. Tonight should be exciting, and since I don't own a dog nor a cat to kick around, my wife had better steer clear of the room while I am hunting in the FSX folder for the missing files... :angry:

 

It might be a bit much to ask, but what I would like is a program that wold go into the FSX folders and move alll the required files into the P3D folders so that all the terrain stuff, aircraft and so on would work with P3D.

 

Henri

[Guest Hotas]

In my case FSX (Crash X as i call it) died for me last year after many years of just problems. I bought p3d some weeks ago when i got a little tired of XP10 and it's limited selections of quality addons. And when it comes to p3d i have had not a single crash, and i have letting it run for days to test it out. So if i have to leave pmdg out, no problem for me.

There was some communication problems between pmdg and LM a while ago. LM did apologize for it on the forum, so i think that is the root problem of this.

[FSMP 95]

"I see Nothing -- I know Nothing"

 

 

[Korny 0]

Edit by mod: Posted EULA avoidance technique.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Chase

[cowpatz 243]

Why resurrect an old thread with something that is nothing to do with the thread subject?