FSX-MS Inherent flaw of FSX to give too much ground friction?

[chabrier 0]

I finally had a chance to try the sim1.dll over the weekend and I have only one thing to say: Johan, thank you! Admittedly, when I started this thread I had low confidence that the FS community had a fix or would be working on one. After all, FSX is already ~6 years...

 

Thank you Johan (and Pete for the easy distribution).

 

Pierre

[Pete Dowson 558]

Pete...I've been doing some experimenting with the ipc.SetFriction calls in Lua (does that now make me a "Luatic?"). I can confirm that dynamic "on-the-fly" changes to the friction settings do indeed work in FSX.

 

Good. That could enable some of the ambitious ideas put forward in this thread come to fruition!

 

I've written a Lua program that restores the rolling friction and braking coefficients to default when groundspeed is above 30 knots...this allows the benefits of the reduced coeffecients during taxi ops (i.e. easier breakaway, low-power taxi, better brake effectiveness during block-in etc), yet minimizes effects to the add-on designer's FDE-driven takeoff and landing performance...a best-of-both-worlds compromise. I'll send you the Lua file.

 

Thanks. I'll add it to the examples in the Lua package.

 

Best Regards

Pete

[catchman 13]

Pete...I've been doing some experimenting with the ipc.SetFriction calls in Lua (does that now make me a "Luatic?"). I can confirm that dynamic "on-the-fly" changes to the friction settings do indeed work in FSX.

 

I've written a Lua program that restores the rolling friction and braking coefficients to default when groundspeed is above 30 knots...this allows the benefits of the reduced coeffecients during taxi ops (i.e. easier breakaway, low-power taxi, better brake effectiveness during block-in etc), yet minimizes effects to the add-on designer's FDE-driven takeoff and landing performance...a best-of-both-worlds compromise. I'll send you the Lua file.

 

Cheers

Good. That could enable some of the ambitious ideas put forward in this thread come to fruition!

 

 

 

Thanks. I'll add it to the examples in the Lua package.

 

Best Regards

Pete

 

When these files go up, will we need to change anything in FSUIPC menu or .cfg other than the present PatchSim1friction=Yes?

[Pete Dowson 558]

When these files go up, will we need to change anything in FSUIPC menu or .cfg other than the present PatchSim1friction=Yes?

 

I think you must be rather confused. Bob's contribution, which is now included in the Lua package I uploaded earlier today, is nothing to do with any menu or CFG or parameter in the FSUIPC INI. It is a more sophisticated version of my original "Frictions.Lua" plugin, which restores the rolling frictions when the aircraft is on the ground and above a certain groundspeed. All you get with the PatchSIM1friction=Yes parameter is the original Johan Dees' patches which were previously provided via the replacement SIM1.DLL.

 

The Lua plug-in method can change the frictions dynamically, whilst you are using the Sim. It will allow all sorts of interesting developments in the future if any of the ideas posted in this thread come to fruition.

 

Regards

Pete

[FSMP 95]

The Lua plug-in method can change the frictions dynamically, whilst you are using the Sim. It will allow all sorts of interesting developments in the future if any of the ideas posted in this thread come to fruition.

 

Regards

Pete

 

Pete,

 

Does FSUIPC's LUA support using LUAC ?? (dofile ? )

 

It might be an incentive for some Commercial developers to develop sophisticated Lua based addons, knowing they have some protection of their IP.

 

 

luac is the Lua compiler. It translates programs written in the Lua programming language into binary files that can be loaded and executed with lua_dofile in C or with dofile in Lua.

 

The main advantages of precompiling chunks are: faster loading, protecting source code from user changes, protecting source code Intellectual Property, and off-line syntax error detection.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Does FSUIPC's LUA support using LUAC ?? (dofile ? )

 

I thought compiled Lua files could be executed by any Lua interpreter? The one built into FSUIPC and WideClient is the standard version 5.1 with additional built-in libraries and some minor changes to a few of the standard library functions so that they don't mess up the process they are running in. Oh, and some debuging features like trace and variable logging.

 

Regards

Pete

[RudiJG1 172]

Forgive my ignorance, but to try out Bob's dynamic friction lua script, I simply place that file in the Modules folder within FSX, correct? I do not need to edit the FSUIPC.ini file at all, right?

 

thanks!

[dhenriques 7]

Hi everyone;

I've been steered over here by folks who are extremely interested in what's being discussed. As an adviser on realism for MSFS going back to the FSX Beta process I can tell you that this exact issue has been a thorn in my realistic side since the beginning. Over time I've discussed the issue with friends who were members of the Aces team and they are aware of my concerns AND the issue.

Reading over this thread it is apparent that the issue is well understood by the people discussing it and having Pete Dawson involved in this is a HUGE plus for the community.

I feel strongly you people might be well into finally solving this problem. I feel the issue is so important it represents perhaps the most important unsolved realism factor in FSX.

Considering I'm NOT a computer guy but rather on the aircraft/aerodynamics end of this equation I've noticed the issue being discussed mainly on takeoffs in MSFS. To expand a bit I've noticed it most on tail wheel aircraft after the tail wheel leaves a runway and the aircraft is on the takeoff run balanced on its 2 main gear. It's also noticable on nose wheel equipped airplanes but in my opinion not as pronounced.

I've described the problem to Microsoft as I saw it at the time during the beta as the aircraft seemingly rotating on a pivot axis in slew as opposed to what I felt I should have been seeing on a takeoff run with rudder input. I was seeing slew from side to side with the nose changing direction with a 0 change in ACTUAL direction. In the real aircraft I SHOULD have been seeing with rudder input a SERPENTINE WEAVE as the aircraft reacted to the applied rudder with the airplane changing DIRECTION. What I was getting was a slewing yaw on a PIVOT.

As some have said, exactly like the aircraft was on ice and hydroplaning in yaw.

Please accept my best wishes to all of you working on this. If the solution is found you will have succeeded in making desktop simulation just that much more realistic and more useful as a tool in real world aviation.

Dudley Henriques

MVP Microsoft FS 2006-2007

[CoolP 283]

Great post, Dudley. Pretty interesting thread and an amazing outcome so far. Thanks again to all folks involved. :smile:

[LHookins 3,104]

Wow, Dudley! I've noticed a certain lack of side friction when on the mains of a taildragger, so if this fixes it, it's all to the good. I haven't seen a problem with tricycle gear.

 

Did you have any comments on the rolling friction?

 

Thanks!

 

Hook

[kdfw__ 542]

installed 4859k and it works well--better lateral stabilty on the ground. great job.

[Bob Scott 7,725]

Forgive my ignorance, but to try out Bob's dynamic friction lua script, I simply place that file in the Modules folder within FSX, correct? I do not need to edit the FSUIPC.ini file at all, right?

 

thanks!

 

You'll need to put the DynamicFriction.lua file into the modules folder, and then in FSUIPC4.INI you need to have an "Auto" section to invoke it, something like this:

 

[Auto]
1=Lua DynamicFriction

[CoolP 283]

I just saw that dynamic friction element of yours, Bob. Must have missed it before. :blush: Great idea! Now I was wondering how I could make sure that it's active. Means apart from flying and trying to feel the difference.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Forgive my ignorance, but to try out Bob's dynamic friction lua script, I simply place that file in the Modules folder within FSX, correct? I do not need to edit the FSUIPC.ini file at all, right?

 

You'll need to run it, or get it to run automatically. All having a Lua plug-in placed in Modules does for you is ensure it is listed for assignment to button or keypress in the FSUIPC assignments options -- the same as with macros. If you want it loaded automatically then you can either run it FROM your ipcReady.lua, if you are using one, or rename it to ipcReady.lua otherwise. If you want it loaded on an aircraft or profile basis, so you can change some of the friction values, then you use the [Auto ...] facility, which, yes, does mean editing the INI file.

 

Details of how Lua plug-ins are run are provided in the Lua Plug-Ins document, and details of the automatic running of macros and plug-ins via [Auto] are provided in the FSUIPC documentation.

 

Any other questions, please go to my Support Forum.

 

[EDIT]

I see Bob's answered as well, giving you one specific way of running it which will work fine.

 

Regards

Pete

[RudiJG1 172]

Thanks, guys, and study of those docs continues.