FSX-MS Ultimate Traffic 2: Traffic disappearing over water

[agutz 13]

Since October 2011 in the UT2 support forum a discussion has been going on about "Traffc disappearing mid flight" (http://ultimatetraffic.flight1.net/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=9572&title=in-progress-traffic-disappearing-mid-flight). The support forum is accessible to registered owners only. But I think what has been discussed there might be of interest to the FlightSim community at large so I take the liberty to report on it here in the open AVSIM forum:

 

After the usual suspects (simconnect, overload of the system etc) were ruled out, thanks to a very persistent user a pattern was emerging: UT2 AI traffic disappears over open water.

 

The administrator of the UT2 forums made test-flights himself and on July 16, 2012 he wrote: "I set off from Stansted at 90deg, out into the North Sea, then turned left to 60deg and flew parallel to the European coast, about 30 miles out. Sure enough, all UT2's AI suddenly disappeared. It wasn't gradual. They all disappeared at once. When I turned right to 90deg and flew towards the Dutch coast the AI suddenly reappeared as I reached the coast."

 

Again on July 17: "I flew from Nice (LFMN) SE over the Mediterranean Sea. Sure enough, all AI traffic disappeared until I hit the northern tip of Corsica, when it suddenly appeared again. There really does seem to be a problem with UT2's AI over water."

 

On October 16, when asked whether he had alerted Flight 1 on this he said: "I did mention it to Flight 1. It seems that over the sea, where there are no ground navigation aids, AI do disappear." Again the same day: "I have reported this to Flight 1 some time ago, but haven't heard anything. I'll have another go."

 

On February 13, 2013 finally a representative of Flight One Software, Sales/Customer Support, showed up: "Climbing up the corporate ladder to check if it can be indeed fixed or not.  One problem is that the lead developer on the product is no longer with us.  Further support on the changes to code or fixes will be extremely limited."

 

Again on February 25: "As I mentioned earlier, it is going to be really hard to have a fix for this particular issue at this point.  Not much I can do here further.  I have made the higher ups aware of the issue and we really don't have a way for producing a fix for this at this time."

 

On March 9 I did a test-flight over the Mediterranean (Algier to Marseille, DAAG - LFML) and reported about the disappearing AI traffic. This was found to be correct and the Flight 1 representative wrote (March 11): "Thanks Andreas for the additional feedback. Already posted in an earlier thread about the probability a fix will be done."

 

When I asked (March 12): "Will Flight1 support UT2 or do we have to live with this?", he answered (March 13): "You will have to live with it for now.  I think I have made that pretty clear. If something changes, you all will be the first to now."

 

That was the final word and the topic was closed.

 

Now, this seems to be a serious problem with software that claims to represent accurate AI traffic everywhere, not just over land. Flight 1 is a major player in the FlightSim arena and I am surprised "the higher ups" do not act on this problem.

 

Regards, Andreas

[N1G 88]

Sounds like you have your hands full. I would like to recommend that you do not, I repeat do not fly near the bermuda triangle. You think disappearing AI traffic gets you worried? Stay away from the bermuda triangle. Just trying to help

 

Bob

[RCITGuy 35]

Andreas, huge thanks for posting this mate... Seriously, massive thanks... I was going to buy UT2, and I'm positive that this is one of those thngs you only find out about after you have spent your money, so will have to find a different AI package instead.. Wont be buying UT2 after all it seems :-(

[Nemo 1,305]

As much as I like UT2 this is a real drawback. Related to this is the fact that if you save a flight or change some settings using the fsx menu, all ai traffic disappears (UT2 reloads). This is annoying if you have to change fsx settings when on approach. That's why I currently prefer another ai traffic program.

 

Harry

[stevem72 10]

Andreas

 

Thanks for posting this here - I am one of the users (moggy72) involved in that discussion and was (& still am) looking at trying to troubleshoot/solve that issue.

 

I had no idea that they had now locked it - a touch naughty imo.

 

Clearly the original developer has long gone, and Flight 1 simply don't know how to fix it.

 

It would be helpful if they moved the topic to a publicly accessible forum so that non users could see that before they buy - but its doubtful they'll do that!!

 

Regards

 

Steve

[ingcarlos26 0]

Thanks for the advice.  I was on the verge of jumping ship to UT2.  Now I'm glad I didn't.

[xplanery 250]

I hope somebody would find a fix for this, hadn't noticed it myself.

 

Most of my overwater flights are long hauls, most of the time I just sleep the cruise phase so lack of AI over water doesn't bother me that much as UT2 still offers so good advantages over land.

[yellowjack 28]

I hope somebody would find a fix for this, hadn't noticed it myself.

 

Most of my overwater flights are long hauls, most of the time I just sleep the cruise phase so lack of AI over water doesn't bother me that much as UT2 still offers so good advantages over land.

 

That is a fair point. Users must assess what this fault actually means to their flying. Also there appears to be a lack of definition of when the flights disappear. I know from recent experience that there was plenty of UT2 traffic flying over the Caribbean and I don't suppose that the English Channel would have any impact. I can say from personal experience that I didn't see to many other aircraft when flying to/from YSSY to KLAX. For me at least, it is more of a technical oddity than a real problem. 

[shamrockflyer 647]

I have noticed this myself, it is quite annoying, but not much of a 'bad' thing. It would be nice to see a fix for this.

 

It literally just happened to me now, I am currently flying Vancouver to Shanghai Pudong, just hit the coast of China, now all traffic are back after a long 6 hours or so of flying in a lonely sky. 

[stevem72 10]

Personally I would do nothing but recommend the product wholeheartedly - and to those earlier posters declaring that they will not buy it....I would absolutely advise you to get it as I don't think you would regret it (its on the Flight 1 30 day guarantee anyways so whats to lose?!?!)

 

On the whole its a great piece of software and the features/benefits of UT2 are fantastic:

the waypoint to waypoint flightplans (not great circle bgl's)

the simconnect injection

the recent schedule updates

the ability to add in your own airlines/flightplans/repaints etc to name a few

 

This bug, however, is fairly significant to me as I live in the UK and being surrounded by seas, I experience it wherever I fly - and yes it happens over the Channel - and so I would have liked to see a fix for it.

 

For those wondering what the issue is - the program seems to lose the ability to inject the traffic when roughly 30-50 miles away from land and the skies will be almost empty until you are back within 30-50 miles from land again!!

 

As an example, I can fly from say Stansted - heading roughly East - with a mass of traffic all around and flying flightplans in all directions.

 

As I cross the coast heading out towards Europe, the traffic is still there....flying on a similar track (towards Europe), flying towards me (towards the UK), flying across my path (on N-S or S-N track) etc no problem.

 

As I get to about 30-40 miles out to sea, the UT2 traffic has dwindled considerably and only traffic within 5-10 miles, and flying in a similar direction remains - even very close to some of Europe's busiest airspace (between London and Amsterdam) I may now be down to only 1 or 2 other aircraft within 50 miles of me, and with noticebly NO traffic approaching me i.e. from Europe towards the UK and the major London airports.

 

This lack of aircraft remains until approx 30-40 miles from the Dutch coast and....wham....UT2 instantly injects a shed load of aircraft all around again - flying on the same track as me, flying towards me, and flying across me, and the skies are loaded again.

 

Flight 1 have acknowledged this as a bug - it is reproducable at will, and has been reproduced by other users and Flight 1 themselves.

 

A number of users have attempted some weird and wonderful tests with the flightplans in an effort to find a solution, or even what seems to cause the issue - using FS Commander, Plan G, creation of specific bgl plans to compare etc.

 

The flightplans seem to contain accurate waypoint data out in the seas/oceans (even including accurate/real world data and Lat/Lon coords for authentic North Atlantic Tracks) and given that the basic premise of UT2 is a mass of data, organised into databases, there appears to be no logical reason for this issue to occur only over water.

 

Flight 1 can't provide an explanation of why this happens, and as they also advise that the developer of the product is no longer around, they are unlikely to be able to provide a fix.

 

As stated, its not entirely a showstopper, as the pros of the product far outweigh the cons, but it is certainly annoying given that it's sold on the back of realistic flightplans/timetables, and that Flight 1 have recently "rebranded" it as Ultimate Traffic 2 - 2013 edition.

 

Add this to the fact that the issue/topic - that is the most replied to non sticky topic on the whole of the UT2 forum - is now locked (and so it will sink away), and its buried away in a forum that you have to be a licensed user of the product to get access to (and wouldn't necessarily become aware of this issue until you've bought it!!)

 

Regards

 

Steve

Edited March 16, 2013 by stevem72

[RCITGuy 35]

 

That's why I currently prefer another ai traffic program.

Harry, what AI app do you use, and why mate?

 

The thing that puts me off UT2 is that from this, we can now gather that like FSX, its going no further, so updates/patches etc are never going to happen..

[Boeing or not going 578]

The positives of UT2 outweigh this negative. Barely though. The positives being the AI actually flies real routes instead of every other Ai program and default Ai that only fly direct GPS. I believe the topic was closed with a comment "we will look into fixing it" what ever that means. If they do fix it, then UT2 would be perfect.

[agutz 13]

The topic was closed with "You will have to live with it for now.  I think I have made that pretty clear."

Andreas

[stevem72 10]

I don't think that there is any doubt that this issue will NOT be fixed - simply because Flight 1 now do not have the developer around and they basically don't know how to fix it themselves.

 

That in itself I can live with....as stated, to me the pros of UT2 far outweigh the cons.....but its galling that:

 

i) they can't even provide a basic explanation as to what causes it (there is a wealth of knowledge out there re AI etc (Jim Vile, Reggie Fields, Jon Murchison etc etc) that might be able to assist if we knew what caused it - is it error in a database, is it error in FSX navaids, is it an FSX limitation etc etc - they haven't cast any light on it whatsoever as to why only over water at all. 

 

ii) they are still marketing UT2 (Ultimate Traffic 2 - 2013 Edition) with the emphasis on realism/accuracy - realistic flightplans, realistic timetable, realistic traffic etc but no mention of a complete lack of AI over water/seas/oceans despite acknowledging this as a bug (in a licensed user only forum)

 

iii) the fact that this issue is now buried away in a licensed user only forum and you are effectively required to buy the product before you get access to this (& other) issues, and clearly would be unaware of it until they've got your cash.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Dirk98 354]

Thanks for the heads up on this. I've notice it myself... The good thing traffic returns when you approach feet dry.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.