If this is the most realistic P51 simulation

[jfri 42]

There was a statement in DCS overview here at avsim saying

 

DCS: P-51D Mustang. The most realistic simulation ever done of this legendary World War 2 ear fighter.

 

If so I'm curious in what way is more realistic than the A2A P51 Mustang for FSX ?

[jcomm 5,935]

Well, I have both, and please don't read this as trying, in any way, to bash A2A's EXCELLENT work, which I don't believe can be any better than that based on the MSFS platform!

 

It is very simply because DCS World FDM is a lot more detailed than FSX's, in all sorts of aspects.  While A2A did a remarkable (perfect in terms of what can be achieved with FSX) job at simulating the p51d, they can never overcome limitations intrinsic to the core FDM.

 

To give you an example where both MSF and XPlane fail at modelling a prop aircraft, specially a powerful one like the p51d, take the absence of a decent model of the spiraling slipstream from the prop. In XPlane there is an hint at modelling it, but it's rather incomplete and results in some well known and most commented inconsistencies in the handling of a prop aircraft in that sim, In MSFS, there are a few variables in the AIR file that can be adjusted, and MSFS uses only p-factor to model the effects of prop comparable to slipstream. Now, IRL, p-factor is just one of the "variables" and not even one that plays an important role on a powerful taildragger other than during takeoff or during other situations of high AoA and power. OTOH the asymmetric hit of the spiraling slipstream on various aircraft surfaces, not modelled in MSFS, is taken into account in DCS... Being ultimately tied to this underlying limitations in the core FDM, the reactions of A2A's model to power changes at different AoA and speeds / configurations have problems.

 

Gyroscopic effects, although modeled in MSFS, and playing their role mostly under high power / high AoA or low speed situations, are also very limited in MSFS (and in X-Plane since I  also use that one ...). In DCS they are superbly captured, as pointed out by some RL p51d drivers :-)

 

Effects of hidden surfaces when, i.e., flying in a slip are also not possible to model accurately in either MSFS or XPlane. Sideslipping or Fwdslipping in MSFS (or even in XPlane that in some aspects could go a bit further in some FD aspects) can't compare to the effects you get in DCS. 

 

Climb straight up at full power and at the top of your climb add full rudder and keep the engine running at high power. Observe what will follow... Sometimes you'll enter a sequence of wild snap rolls (or something like that... comparable in some way to what you can

I recorded long ago with the default Extra in FSX) and even climb for a while, then descend, then climb... You can say this is a limit, rather out of the envelope maneuver, but the outcome in DCS World makes sense, and gives you the right perception of what would happen in RL if you could try it... 

 

Above all, try the DCS model and see for yourself :-)

 

And, from someone with (too) many years of flight simulation, and RL flying since 1980, believe me - DCS World IS THE SIMULATOR!!! I sometimes divert into XP or even FSX, and others (FG, MS FLIGHT, ELITE, SW), but end up running into DCS's accuracy / soundness / completeness shelter after a short while ....  Above all I am thankful to MS FLIGHT for having got me back into the flight simulation world, but above all to ED for making DCS World what it already is, and will be in the near future!!!

[jfri 42]

 

 

Above all, try the DCS model and see for yourself :-)



And, from someone with (too) many years of flight simulation, and RL flying since 1980, believe me - DCS World IS THE SIMULATOR!!! I sometimes divert into XP or even FSX, and others (FG, MS FLIGHT, ELITE, SW), but end up running into DCS's accuracy / soundness / completeness shelter after a short while

 

Well it's almost two years since we had this discussion. So far I have purchased the P51D and been flying it for a while. Have made all training lessons and also tried missions. I find it very difficult to fight in and also challenging to fly.

I now consider buying the A2A civil P51 so I can train and fly in it like a civilian flight in FSX and P3D. DCS is still the MILITARY simulator. FSX is a civilian simulator.

[jcomm 5,935]

It's a great add-on for FSX for sure, the A2A one !  Go for it ;-)

[MarkJHarris 128]

Well Jfri, 

 

I guess now you know how good you have to be to fly a real warbird....They are not easy, and never were. For the young men that trained and flew them all those years ago, remember just how hard it is, and you're safe and warm and not being shot at for real!

[Poppet 709]

I have both as well,  and love them in equal amounts in different ways.   I fly the P51 DCS, for just pottering around and enjoying the modeling, sound, the graphics are amazing and just overall feeling of a fantastic well made plane.   But like yourself im not much of a fighter pilot,  i find it very difficult to fly, Navigate, shoot and stay alive all at the same time,  it takes the enjoyment out of it for me.  I bought the P51 DCS first with the idea of been able to fly from one airport to another but personally speaking i soon found out navigating around the place without a moving map was killing the experience.  I still tip around in my DCS P51 in short bursts and relish everything about it.  

 

If you like the DCS P51 this is a must buy at 14 Euro on sale 

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/316960/

 

 

A2A Simulation P51 Civilian Mustang really hit the spot for me,   A mustang with modern Avionics, perfect!  for flying long distance where ever you want,  also come with a whole host of goodies like weight and fuel management and of course Acusim that models damage, heat, oil and so on.

The Acusim comes as a separate packages but its highly recommended to by both. 

 

https://a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=53

 

 

I still go back to this thread for some great opinions on all A2A warbirds. 

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/460623-best-a2a-wings-of-power-accusim-airplane/

[hangar 661]

Does DCS plan on offering any civilian type aircraft in the near future do you know?

[Poppet 709]

i doubt it very much,   its a war theater.    I would love to see the look on a Sim pilot zapping by in a Mig21 and me tipping by in a Cherokee  

[jcomm 5,935]

Poppet,

 

excellent post and I fully share your opinion and the way I see we can use both the excellent A2A Accusimed modules ( or the Real Air modules, also very good ) and DCS.

 

Just as you, I don't like air combat, although I somehow good hooked in it with DCS ww2 birds and IL2 BoS...

 

I'm a natural opponent to War, of any kind, and I love Aviation, so, using an aircraft to destroy whatever can be destroyed using it, even if virtually, doesn't make many sense to me.

 

But I do love the flight characteristics of these great ww2 powerful fighters, and the accuracy with which they're modelled in both FSX ( thx to A2A's attention to detail ) and in DCS World, but I do find the flight dynamics in DCS way more natural, and plausible than FSX, and when we start bringing those machines to extreme flight situations it pays to see how great DCS FDM really is, specially in the hands of the talented Yo-Yo :-)

[jfri 42]

 

 

I have both as well, and love them in equal amounts in different ways. I fly the P51 DCS, for just pottering around and enjoying the modeling, sound, the graphics are amazing and just overall feeling of a fantastic well made plane. But like yourself im not much of a fighter pilot, i find it very difficult to fly, Navigate, shoot and stay alive all at the same time, it takes the enjoyment out of it for me. I bought the P51 DCS first with the idea of been able to fly from one airport to another but personally speaking i soon found out navigating around the place without a moving map was killing the experience. I still tip around in my DCS P51 in short bursts and relish everything about it.

 

I try to use the DCS P51 for what it is supposed to be used for but it's difficult. Though I have been able to shoot down one plane and I can hit targets on the ground (occasionally)

but that means getting so close to the ground target that I get shoot down. For now I'm trying the campaign. But I don't like it. It's no real campaign just flying through squares in the air. I'm stuck at the point where I should fly through a city.

I dislike using a moving map in this plane as it feels unrealistic.

 

 

 

A2A Simulation P51 Civilian Mustang

.

 

I for sure find this plane easier to land than the DCS version

 

 

But I do love the flight characteristics of these great ww2 powerful fighters, and the accuracy with which they're modelled in both FSX ( thx to A2A's attention to detail ) and in DCS World, but I do find the flight dynamics in DCS way more natural, and plausible than FSX

 

But I have noticed that in DCS I don't really need to apply right rudder on take of like I need in FSX. Does this not make the FSX version more realistic in this regard ?

[KingGhidorah 209]

I think that's because you have a "cheat" option enabled which minimizes the amount of rudder required on takeoff. Make sure that is unselected.

[jcomm 5,935]

Yes, make sure that under Options / Special you disable takeoff assist, which defaults to 100% while it should be at 0% ;-)

[jfri 42]

Yes, make sure that under Options / Special you disable takeoff assist, which defaults to 100% while it should be at 0% ;-)

 

I did so and still I need very little right rudder

[jcomm 5,935]

It's normal. There is no need for a huge rudder deflection during the takeoff run in a p51.

 

Things change in  the K4 and even the D9...

[jfri 42]

 

 

It's normal. There is no need for a huge rudder deflection during the takeoff run in a p51.

 

In the A2A Civilian P51 I need to apply a fairly big amount of right rudder