PMDG 737NGX crash to desktop when choosing "end flight", even on a fresh and clean Windows installation - Some interesting facts I found...

[FSXChris 2]

Dear Sir or Madam,

I bought your product PMDG 737NGX 800/900 + 600/700 some time ago. Now, after a certain time of absence, I decided to reinstall FSX to be able to fly again. But I came in serious trouble using the PMDG 737NGX series. Every time I ended a flight via "End Flight", FSX crashed with an APPCRASH error pointing to the PMDG_737NGX.DLL file. As I could not resolve that issue I decided to reinstall Windows from the scratch. But the problem still resists. So I did some interesting research. But first let me tell you what is currently installed on my PC:

 

Hardware:

- Core i7-920 2.66 GHz (not overclocked)

- 12GB DDR3 RAM

- NVidia GTX670 (2GB)

- 512GB Samsung SSD

- No Joystick

 

Software:

- Windows 8 64bit + All Updates

- Newest Nvidia GTX670 Drivers

- Microsoft Process Explorer

- Notepad++ as an editor

- FSX + Acceleration (Installed in C:\FSX)

- PMDG 737NGX 800/900 + SP1c

- The only modification to the FSX.CFG I did is inserting HIGHMEMFIX=1 in the GRAPHICS section

! Nothing else, because it is a totaly fresh Windows installation !

 

What I did set up in Windows -before- installing anything:

- Disable Firewall

- Disable Windows Defender

- Disable UAC (By using the registry key, because only this deactivates it completely in Windows8)

! So nothing can disturb any installations !

 

Now, even with that clean installation I'm still getting the FSX crashes when flying the PMDG 737NGX and trying to exit to the FSX Main Menue by using "End Flight". Because this error is still present, I fired up Process Explorer and did some research. This is what I discovered, and which hopefully would help you in identifying and solving this problem:

 

Test Case 1:

************

I fired up FSX (Standard Flight is loaded), and looked which PMDG DLLs are loaded in this situation - only the PMDG_HUD_interface.dll showed up. Then I loaded the PMDG 737NGX-800 aircraft and again looked for PMDG DLLs. Amongst other PMDG stuff, the PMDG_737NGX.dll, PMDG_737NGX_2.dll, PMDG_737NGX_3.dll showed up beside of the PMDG_HUD_interface.dll. Just for testing, I did not click "Fly Now". No, I -again-, right after choosing the PMDG aircraft, loaded a FSX default aircraft (does not matter which one I picked - I tested it with many of them). When again looking for the PMDG dll files the result was quite interesting. Beside the afore mentioned PMDG_HUD_interface.dll all PMDG Dlls unloaded with the exception of the PMDG_737NGX.dll. Now I switched again to the PMD 737NGX-800 aircraft - and guess what: FSX crashed with exactly the same error message which I'm getting when flying and using the "End flight" option.

 

Test Case 2:

************

Now I became curious and edited the dll.xml file. I inserted the following lines:

 

  <Launch.Addon>

<Name>PMDG</Name>

<Disabled>False</Disabled>

<ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>

<Path>Gauges\PMDG_737NGX.dll</Path>

</Launch.Addon>

 

After that I fired up FSX (again the Standard Flight is loaded), and looked which PMDG DLLs are now loaded in this situation. As one might expect, the PMDG_HUD_interface.dll as well as the PMDG_737NGX.dll showed up. The I selected the PMDG 737NGX-800 aircraft and FSX immediately crashed.

 

Conclusion:

***********

 

Therefore I drew the following conclusion:

- FSX does not unload the PMDG_737NGX.dll file after this once is loaded.

- When selecting a PMDG 737NGX airplane and the PMDG_737NGX.dll is loaded, FSX crashes

 

This also explains why FSX is crashing when using the "End Flight" option. When selecting "End Flight" FSX normaly switches back to the main menu, where you can setup your next flight. In this case, your last setup (airplane,airport,weather,date and time) is loaded again, and you can start altering that to setup your next flight. And this is the point where the still loaded PMDG_737NGX.dll comes into play. As the PMDG_737NGX.dll is not correctly unloaded by FSX (See Test Case 1), the simulator crashes when trying to restore your last setup. Because FSX will not load the default airplane, no it tries to restore your last settings and load the PMDG 737NGX airplane. But this does not work, as the PMDG_737NGX.dll is still loaded and can not be loaded again on top of each other (See Test Case 2) ==> FSX crashes

 

 

Maybe this information could help you in fixing this really annoying problem, which seems to occur very often. A simple google search on PMDG_737NGX.DLL crashes when choosing "End Flight" brings up a lot of hits, but until now, no one seems to have a real solution for this. Hopefully things will change now.

 

Best regards,

Christian

[SierraHotel 974]

Hi Christian, this info, or at least the part about not reloading the NGX is in the introduction. It's common practice to shut down and restart FSX when loading another aircraft. I also shutdown and restart after a flight when using the NGX.

[Michael Moe 493]

Hi Christian, this info, or at least the part about not reloading the NGX is in the introduction. It's common practice to shut down and restart FSX when loading another aircraft. I also shutdown and restart after a flight when using the NGX.

 

 

 

I agree but when you make changes to your graphics they do not save when shutting down FSX directly (exit to desktop) on my system. I need to end flight and kill FSX through the startup menu before changes are saved for my next fsx.exe run.

 

BTW.

 

After the latest update from FS2crew i am not having the crash which is interesting 

[SierraHotel 974]

After the latest update from FS2crew i am not having the crash which is interesting

I am still getting it if I end the flight without doing the proper shutdown procedure.

[FSXChris 2]

Hi Christian, this info, or at least the part about not reloading the NGX is in the introduction. It's common practice to shut down and restart FSX when loading another aircraft. I also shutdown and restart after a flight when using the NGX.

 

I only partially agree with that. In the introduction PMDG describes:

 

The PMDG 737NGX does not like to be reloaded. And you would end up in a simulator lockup if this is not done carefully. So far so good. BUT they also say that doing it carefully, you should not end up in locking up your simulator. Fortunately PMDG also describes what they mean by "reloading" and "carefully": If you want to change for example the livery of your 737-800 for the next flight, you should not load the same variant (737-800) with a different livery on top of the first variant, because this could really crash FSX. Instead of this use the following workaround: First load another variant of the PMDG planes (e.g. the 737-900) and THEN reload the 800 variant with the new livery. Doing it this way around you are fine.

So there should be only a problem when reloading the same variant on top. PMDG itself says in the Introduction manual that this is the easiest way to keep you from reloading the simulator when swithcing between liveries.

 

But in my case it does not matter if I load the same or a different variant of the airplane on top of each other. In both cases FSX crashes with the aforementioned PMDG_737NGX.DLL error message.

 

Kind regards,

Christian

[Tabs 2,790]

Christian,

 

You really have no joystick or other controller preset at all? Have you made any custom key assignments or anything like that?

Also, have you tried installing the latest FSUIPC 4.xx? While we don't actually use FSUIPC directly, some users have reported that the later versions stop this crash for them.

[FSXChris 2]

Hello Ryan,

 

no I really do not have any joystick or controller connected to the computer. So there does not exist any preset. It was my intention to setup a system as clean as possible in order to be able to pinpoint the source of this strange behavior  So, currently my computer is not usable for other things, because only the things mentioned in the first post are installed currently. Until now there are also no plugins like FSUIPC installed. But I will check this and report back. I own a registered license of FSUIPC and will install it right after posting this answer.

 

The main reason why I'm writing is that I have noticed another interesting thing (new testcase):

 

 

Test Case 3:

************

I fired up FSX (Standard Flight is loaded), and looked which PMDG DLLs are loaded in this situation - only the PMDG_HUD_interface.dll showed up. Then I clicked "Fly Now", which brings me to the Standard flight (Trike aircraft in the air at Friday Harbor). Then I changed the aircraft during the flight. I picked the PMDG 737-800, let it initialize (without any keyboard input during that time) and continued afterwards for some seconds. Then I hit "End Flight". And.... ohoooo, no crash. This time I managed to get back right to the FSX Start menu - but this time, again the Trike aircraft was loaded and showed up on the start screen instead of the PMDG 737, because I switched to the PMDG during the flight and not before hitting "Fly Now". And as FSX restores the conditions before you hit "Fly Now", the Trike Aircraft was loaded again after hitting "End Flight", and FSX did not crash.

Now, as I was back in the FSX start menu (free flight menu), I looked again which DLLs were loaded. Again, beside of the aforementioned PMDG_HUD_interface.dll all PMDG Dlls were unloaded with the exception of the PMDG_737NGX.dll. Now I wanted to start my next flight. But this time I tried to select a different aircraft than the Trike. So I went into the aircraft menu and selected the PMDG 737-800 airplane. But as I expected it, doing so, FSX crashed again because of the PMDG_737NGX.DLL, which was still loaded because of my last flight.

 

So, I think this Test supports my thesis that it has something to do with FSX not unloading the PMDG_737NGX.DLL after usage / when switching the airplane.

 

Best regards,

Christian

 

PS: Will try FSUIPC now. 

[FSXChris 2]

OK, I installed FSUIPC4 Version 4.86 (registered) now, but unfortunately this does not resolve the problem. I still see the exact same behavior.

 

So, just to stay up-to.date, my Software configuration now changed to:

 

 

Software:

- Windows 8 64bit + All Updates

- Newest Nvidia GTX670 Drivers

- Microsoft Process Explorer

- Notepad++ as an editor

- FSX + Acceleration (Installed in C:\FSX)

- PMDG 737NGX 800/900 + SP1c

- FSUIPC4 Version 4.86 (registered)

- The only modification to the FSX.CFG I did is inserting HIGHMEMFIX=1 in the GRAPHICS section

! Nothing else, because it is a totaly fresh Windows installation !

 

 

Best regards,

Christian

 

 

Edit: What I forgot to ask: If anyone knows a way/program which allows me to unload/unbind a used file from a program, if this is at all possible, I would be very grateful for such an information. Because I'm thinking of manually unloading/unbinding the PMDG_737NGX.DLL from FSX during the runtime of the simulator.

[FSXChris 2]

Hello again,

now, on the 6th day of my research things are getting really strange. Still I do not have any clue what is responsible for these crashes. Yesterday evening I did some more tests (like every day) and discovered another strange thing. Let me call this "Test Case 4"

 

Test Case 4

***********

 

Again, I started up FSX. After FSX was fully loaded I selected the PMDG 737-800 aircraft from the aircraft menu. After loading the aircraft, it was displayed *correctly* within the 3D preview of the "FREE FLIGHT" menu. {Note: If I would start a flight now, everything looks fine and I also can interact with the cockpit normally - but for now we will not click the "fly now" button, we will stay in the FREE FLIGHT menu} Now, things are getting weired. If I change into any other menu than the FREE FLIGHT menu (e.g. SETTINGS menu, where there is no 3D preview of the plane), and then change back to the FREE FLIGHT menu, my PMDG 737-800 aircraft is not displayed correctly anymore - both engine spinners have disappeared! I could reproduce the exactly same effect if I would not install the Acceleration pack, or if I would not install the C++ 2010 redistributables. The PMDG aircrafft is not working anymore, you only see the "dead" shell rotating in the 3D preview {To prove this: If I would start a flight now, I will NOT be able to interact with the cockpit anymore. All screens stay black, there is no initialization counter, and no cockpit button/switch/... is working. As I have said, the PMDG 737-800 is completely dead - but for now we will *again* not click the "fly now" button, we will stay in the FREE FLIGHT menu}. If I now change AGAIN into any other menu than the FREE FLIGHT menu (e.g. SETTINGS menu), and then change back to the FREE FLIGHT menu, FSX crashes with exactly the same error message (AppCrash, PMDG_737NGX.DLL). This behaviour is 100% reproducable with any PMDG 737NGX airplane. Furthermore this behaviour is NOT reproducable with any default airplane.

 

So in short: "FREE FLIGHT" => Select PMDG 737-800 NGX => "SETTINGS" => "FREE FLIGHT" => "SETTINGS" => "FREE FLIGHT" (CRASH)

 

 

I'm wondering if there is

 

a ) any possibility to "deactivate" the 3D preview of the aircraft in the FREE FLIGHT menu

b ) any possibility to enable some "debugging" messages regarding FSX and/or PMDG 737NGX

 

 

Best regards,

Christian

[(Guss) Kemp 13]

Well I do have pretty much the same problem, even though I don't understand most of the techie stuff you wrote up there, And in fact added this problem to my last post open for hope full answers, like you I have it all so clean I didn't even get to putting Joystick on yet.

 

I had restarted every step of the way and all was well up to and including my test trip in my NGX, don't forget that this was the first flight to make sure the install of my 737 was also correct, and just the same as you I ended the flight and got "Fatal Error" then windows stated trying to resolve, and of course restarted, so I was back in the default situation.

 

I guess I will just follow your post for answers.

 

Guss

[FSXChris 2]

Hello Guss,

and a very warm welcome to this thread. I hope we will be able to find a solution for all of this.

 

May I ask you if your FSX also crashes when reproducing the steps I described in Testcase Nr. 4? Namely:

Without starting any flight, just select any 737NGX aircraft in the "FREE FLIGHT" menu, thereafter switch to the SETTINGS menu, thereafter switching back to "FREE FLIGHT" menu again, thereafter switching again to the "SETTINGS" menu, and finally switching back to the "FREE FLIGHT". During that last switch to the "FREE FLIGHT" menu I can always reproduce my 737NGX crashing the simulator.

 

Best regards,

Christian

[(Guss) Kemp 13]

Hello Guss,

and a very warm welcome to this thread. I hope we will be able to find a solution for all of this.

 

May I ask you if your FSX also crashes when reproducing the steps I described in Testcase Nr. 4? Namely:

Without starting any flight, just select any 737NGX aircraft in the "FREE FLIGHT" menu, thereafter switch to the SETTINGS menu, thereafter switching back to "FREE FLIGHT" menu again, thereafter switching again to the "SETTINGS" menu, and finally switching back to the "FREE FLIGHT". During that last switch to the "FREE FLIGHT" menu I can always reproduce my 737NGX crashing the simulator.

 

Best regards,

Christian

Thanks for your warm welcome,

Now I don't know why you would do the above, its your experiment and It is above my level of thinking, but I followed your steps as given, and I was able to load into my flight without any trouble, other that forgetting to set an airport and ending up over Easter Island dropping quite quickly toward the ground :-), Again though as I ended the flight, I got the message  "Fatal Error" with trying to find  and then restarting FSX.

 

The only thing I would add here is, I have worked methodically following all advices to date with this Clean Move Install to D: and after the last required reboot, at the stage when I was ready for add ons, I decided to start with the 737 NGX series, and all went well from my installer without a problem of any kind, the Installer didn't even ask for my key at any time but just proceeded to > finish.

 

I hit this problem on my test flight, just a  quick fly around to confirm installation was ok before doing yet another reboot, only when I "End Flight" did I see the problem then. and like you I didn't need my Joystick on at this stage, I only wanted to start re installing and testing my add ons along the way, so pretty much the same  I guess here

 

regards

Guss

[Spook 96]

Armed with the knowledge from the OP's test i went and done the free flight > setting> free flight thing.

 

Some things i found interesting. I have high and low res textures for the NGX ( i might add - i had to lower the texture res myself with GIMP )

 

I selected the low res 700 and must of clicked between free flight and setting atleast 30 times....no error, no skelly plane, nothing.

(selecting fly now after doing all that and all was well - timer countdown,. all working.)

 

Now i go and select the 900 in the PMDG livery.

 

F/flight > Settings > F/flight > setting >F/flight >>>>>>skelly plane...> setting > free flight > CRASH!

 

Now it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out whats gone on there....Cleary it is not happenging with the low res textures **

My thought are that when u leave the preview screen ( going to settings) and go back to it, it has to reload the 4096 textures - repeatedly doing this overloads the memory...................................Or somthing along those lines...cant put my finger on it.

 

As for the CTD when selecting end flight...well, after i land and taxi in, im done and always exit with 'control + c' (or V?) whitch just closes it. So ill, just for experimentation, try with a low res paint.....never know?

 

I will also add, that before i resized my paints, i was useing the pmdg repaint that comes with it. Whilst useing the high res textures, every - single - time i landed ( so after a flight when the memory is caked with things) without fail when going to spot view i had a skelly plane - every time, followed by :

 

'' Your system has ran out of memory, adjust setting blah blah''

 

Since resizing my textures to 1024, 1/3rd of the size, i have yet to see this problem again.

Ofcorse there are fortunate people out there that dont have this problem -  and will tell me its my system, although the evidence above blatantly says otherwise.

 

Therefore my conclusion to the sim crashing in the first problem is....texture size.

 

** if you would like a small texture repaint, here is one to try if you woukld like to try for yourself :

 

http://www.vmbollig.de/fs/lha/repaints/LHA_B737_PMX_DANDE_STD_LR.ptp

[(Guss) Kemp 13]

Thanks for that Offering Luke,

 

I might add that all was well with this at the same settings before, its just a completely clean install on another drive that has much more space on it and away from UAC, I did actually follow the PMDG Guide to the letter for a clean un/re-install, adding my own clean up before going ahead with the fresh install, this was to make well and truly sure no fragments were left behind.

 

I didn't do any of the OP' suggestions as he listed them until after I had gone to test out the install of my NGX series 6/900, it was just freshly installed no other add on at this stage, not even my joystick as yet, so I would assume It should be just the same as before but on another drive, as mentioned the installer didn't ask me for the key on this install this is the first time I have had to re-install so I don't know if would ask me for key or not?

 

I simply went to end my first test flight after install, and got "Fatal Error", default aircraft are fine.

 

Regards
Guss

[FSXChris 2]

-