PMDG 737NGX crash to desktop when choosing "end flight", even on a fresh and clean Windows installation - Some interesting facts I found...

[FSXChris 2]

- revised -

[Spook 96]

When i run BCDEDIT in command...a window pops up and dissapears before i have chance to see it...its more a flash on screen (happens so fast)

 

Any ideas?

[FSXChris 2]

Hey Luke,

please try the following method:

 

- Navigate to C:\Windows\System32 by using the windows explorer.

- Right-Click on cmd.exe and choose "Run as administrator"

- Now, in the new popup window type   bcdedit   and you should see the currently set value (if set)

- To set a new value or overwrite the current value simply use the   bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa   command

- To delete all the settings use the   bcdedit /deletevalue IncreaseUserVa   command

 

Best regards,

Chris

 

PS: I'm on Windows 8, but this should be the same on Windows 7

[Spook 96]

Cheers Chris that done it. Heres a pic

 

 

 

i want to find out what it is now before changing it, can that be done?

[FSXChris 2]

Hello Luke,

normally the value "increaseuserva" shows up somewhere at the bottom IF it was set previously, and only then. As you do not see it, you did not set it explicitly, so windows will use the build in default value. And as far as I have read that value may differ from Operating System to Operating System. I think I have read something around 2GB per default. But I do not know that exactly. But it seems that the default value is definitely too low for FSX + PMDG.

 

Doing some search I found some Microsoft article about it:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542202%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

 

It states that only values between 2048 and 3072 are accepted. Maybe I should lower my value a bit to 3072. I do not know, I have to do some more research here. Maybe someone else knows if this 3072 maximum also applies to Systems with >4GB RAM.

 

Best regards,

Chris

 

 

 

PS: Currently I have set it now to 3072 (see revised version below)

[FSXChris 2]

 

...after another night of reinstalling Windows 8 64bit and again ending up with the same problems on an again "clean" System (configuration like in Post 1)...

 

Hello everybody,

and also a warm welcome to you Luke.

 

Thank you both, Luke & Guss for trying and reporting the behaviour of my "test case 4". Guss, you are totally right - normally I wouldn't do that neither (switching several times between F/flight and Settings menu), but it indicated to me that there is some sort of problem which obviously shouldn't be there. And the input of you and Luke showed me that this error is to a high percentage NOT related to the PMDG aircraft / PMDG DLL files. Because you (Guss) could switch without a problem and Luke could switch at least 30 times with a low res livery without any problem at all. So the problem needs to be searched somewhere else.

By the way: Thank you very much for the provided low res livery, Luke. I tested that and almost miraculous I also could switch 4-6 times between the F/flight menu and the Settings menu before crashing my FSX. So, I concluded that the strage behaviour I encountered has in fact something to do with either my free RAM or my graphic card memory. Despite having enough of both (12GB RAM and a GTX670 with 2GB RAM) there seems to be some limiting factor, which prevents FSX from using it. And that turns out to be the right corner to search in. So to be concise:

 

I have very good news to share with you. I managed to fix ALL of my problems.

 

The solution is 2-folded and of course *** you are doing this all at your own risk ***:

 

1st (even on a 64bit system) I needed to increase/set the maximum virtual user-memory a 32bit process can access. This was done by:

     -> Opening Command Line (cmd.exe) as an administrator (if you did not disabled your UAC)

     -> Setting the maximum virtual user memory to 3GB by typing:    BCDEDIT.EXE /Set IncreaseUserVa 3072

         Note: This value is set in MegaBytes and the valid values are between 2048 and 3072

     -> Windows needs to be rebooted after that!

 

!!! ATTENTION !!!

Note, that this will set the maximum virtual user memory per 32bit process to 3GB. If you have only 4GB RAM you should leave some more memory than the remaining 1GB for your kernel. In this case you might want to lower the value to 2560 (which seems to be a good starting point for Win7). Note that you need to reboot your system every time you change the value to apply the changes. Then, after a reboot you can check the current used value by plainly entering "BCDEDIT.EXE". Somewhere in the last lines of the output which will be displayed, you will see the currently set IncreaseUserVA value (if you have set it before - otherwise you will not find a value here, indicating that windows is using the default value). If something goes wrong (IF YOU SET THE VALUE TOO HIGH YOU MIGHT END UP WITH A NOT BOOTING SYSTEM [i read that this only applies to 32bit systems]) you need to reboot in Safe-Mode (pressing F8 during boot time + selecting bootup in safe mode // Please familiarize yourself with that procedure before changing any value, so that you can react accordingly in case the system is not booting anymore) and delete the last setting by typing "BCDEDIT.EXE /deletevalue IncreaseUserVa". Then you can try to set a different (lower) value.

 

2nd (Many thanks to Ryan for the hint) You NEED to install one of the newer versions of FSUIPC4 (e.g. V4.86). Note: The shareware variant is totally sufficient. You do not need a registered version of it.

 

 

!!! IF you experience any instabilities after a certain time in flight, your kernel might run out of memory (not FSX). Solution: Try a lower value and reboot. As stated above, this is very unlikely if you are using a 64bit system!!!

 

Ok, that's it! Yippiee!

To explain this a little bit: By increasing my virtual user-memory available to a 32bit system process (here FSX), I managed to get rid of the crashes when I'm switching between the F/flight and the Settings menu. Even with Hi-Res textures I'm able to do that >60 times [tested that!]. I'm also able to switch between different variants of the PMDG-737NGX aircraft without any crash or error message. Allowing me to switch the liveries in-game like written by PMDG in their introduction manual (please see my second post on that in this thread). But I still one problem remained: I could still not end a flight by using "End Flight" without a crash. But then I remembered the hint which Ryan (PMDG) gave to me in his post. I installed FSUIPC4 again and instantly all my problems were solved. I'm now able to end my flight using "end flight", returning me back to the F/flight menu. Here I'm able to switch my livery/plane/... whatever I want and as often I want to, before I'm continuing with my next flight.

Note: For me, *only* installing FSUIPC4 did not solve the "end flight" problem. Only with the *combination* of FSUIPC and the increased virtual user-memory I was able to solve the "end flight" crash.

 

 

OK, so again I want to thank you all for your kindly support and help during the last couple of days, for all the tips and hints, your provided files and of course your willingness to test and report back on some of my test cases. I wish you all the the best and I hope that these two fixes will also help you or anyone else who gets into the same troubles.

 

Finally I want to make clear that this failure had nothing to do with the PMDG_737NGX.DLL - Even if you might think so (because of the FSX.EXE AppCrash error messages), it's really NOT their fault. So sorry Ryan/PMDG for suspecting that there might be something wrong with FSX not unloading your DLL file. It is totally OK that the PMDG_737NGX.DLL remains loaded after switching the 737NGX to a default plane - and this had absolutely NOTHING to do with the FSX crashes I experienced. Just to make that point clear.

 

 

And now, I wish you always good landings,

enjoy your "new born" FSX  

 

Best regards to all of you,

Christian

 

 

- Revision 1.1 -

> Changed the maximum assignable value for IncreaseUserVa

> Now without colors, because they seemed to screw up my last post

[Spook 96]

 

 

 

Off to reboot..

[(Guss) Kemp 13]

Well Guys,

 

I have absolutely no idea what all of the above actually means I am sorry to say, I did say I'm new to FSX flight simulation, I only know this as fact.

 

1,

When I first Got the PMDG 737 NGX it installed to my FSX without any problems at all,  I only  had default aircraft, and I had done  some flights in the B747 default, With some custom settings that were not extreme for my Rig, all worked fine after the reboot and I could exit "End Flight" from any NGX without a problem,

 

2.

I have a completely clean installation of FSX done "by the book" according to the PMDG Guide, the only difference is I  changed the drive that FSX now resides on, for the purpose of more space and away from UAC, My settings are pretty much the same as before and I have not tried to run any other Add ons at this time, I feel that any additions would only complicate this issue.

 

3.

The installation of the Full 737 NGX package including the Sp1 went without a hitch of any kind and this bird does fly, ( Very Nicely ) I love it !! :-) . I can launch anyone of the NGX models and free fly anywhere still with my K/b-mouse, I don't wish to even add my Joystick setup  at this time, still so as not to complicate things.

 

4.

The only unusual thing was that the installer at no time asked me to activate it, I had my key at the ready fully expecting this but it didn't happen as I said before, So I am currently at a  loss as to what I should do next, I don't want to simply CTD after every NGX flight as an option, this cannot be the way to go, I don't want to add more to my Sim till I resolve this issue.  Result is, No Flight sim  at this time, Still. :-(

 

Ever hopefull,

 

Guss

[FSXChris 2]

Guss,

if you just reinstalled your FSX to another drive without formating your harddrive and re-installing Windows, it is totally OK that the NGX does not ask you for a serial. Because no matter where you install FSX, your serial (your licencefile for the licence manager) is still located on drive c, in the directory: C:\Users\All Users\FLEXnet

So, as you entered your NGX serial before (when your FSX was installed on drive C), there is no need to re-register it, because the keys are stored on drive c and are still present. You only need to enter your serial again after formatting your whole system. So don't worry, your all fine.

 

And for your "end flight" problem:

1st please install FSUIPC, which you can download here: http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html   (Just click on "FSUIPC4 4.86"). Just download it, unzip it, and run the installer. Run FSX again and try if the "end flight" bug is still present.

 

If it is not solved by doing so, then you also might need to set your IncreaseUserVa value. Just follow the following steps:

 

 

- Navigate to C:\Windows\System32 by using the windows explorer.

- Right-Click on cmd.exe and choose "Run as administrator"

- Enter bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 2560

- Reboot your PC

 

If you are on Windows 7 64bit or Windows 8 64bit, and more than 4GB RAM, you might set bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072

 

If you are uncertain, maybe you know someone in your vicinity who could help you on that.

 

All the best,

Christian

[InTheAir 44]

Nice find Christian.

 

I wanted to share something I too found strange, might help someone else.

 

I wasn't able to use bcdedit, when I typed "bcdedit /enum" I would get this: "The boot configuration data store could not be opened. The system cannot find the file specified." I found out that my C: drive's hidden partition containing the MBR needs a drive letter assigned to it before bcdedit will work. This also fixes peoples problems with completing a successful system backup. Just wanted to share.

 

I wonder if having an SSD as my boot drive has anything to do with this?

[FSXChris 2]

Hello Jon,

and thank you too for your input.

 

Personally I do have no experience with that kind of error message when running bcdedit, but maybe I can help you answering your question. As I personally own a SSD drive as my boot drive (on which also FSX is installed), I can tell you that I did not get any error message when running bcdedit. So I think that this might not be related to your SSD drive as boot drive. I think it is only related to the partitioning of the drive. But nice to hear that this kind of error could be resolved by assigning a drive letter to the hidden partition.

 

Best regards,

Christian

[(Guss) Kemp 13]

Guss,

if you just reinstalled your FSX to another drive without formating your harddrive and re-installing Windows, it is totally OK that the NGX does not ask you for a serial. Because no matter where you install FSX, your serial (your licencefile for the licence manager) is still located on drive c, in the directory: C:\Users\All Users\FLEXnet

So, as you entered your NGX serial before (when your FSX was installed on drive C), there is no need to re-register it, because the keys are stored on drive c and are still present. You only need to enter your serial again after formatting your whole system. So don't worry, your all fine.

 

And for your "end flight" problem:

1st please install FSUIPC, which you can download here: http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html   (Just click on "FSUIPC4 4.86"). Just download it, unzip it, and run the installer. Run FSX again and try if the "end flight" bug is still present.

 

If it is not solved by doing so, then you also might need to set your IncreaseUserVa value. Just follow the following steps:

 

 

- Navigate to C:\Windows\System32 by using the windows explorer.

- Right-Click on cmd.exe and choose "Run as administrator"

- Enter bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 2560

- Reboot your PC

 

If you are on Windows 7 64bit or Windows 8 64bit, and more than 4GB RAM, you might set bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072

 

If you are uncertain, maybe you know someone in your vicinity who could help you on that.

 

All the best,

Christian

Hello Christian,

 

My thanks to you for coming back to me on this issue your help is really appreciated, Good to know that Installer doesn't ask unless its going onto a newly formatted drive that will help to know that when I do upgrade, ( Plans afoot ) I have already downloaded from the link you provided and I only need to execute and test now at this stage, I have my fingers crossed I hope you have too.

 

I had thought that forum members could call up my PC details from underneath my name, should you need to see those details and cannot access them just let me know,  I have taken note of your second instructions just in case, I think I should be able to work through that if needed.

 

I have just had two straight days without any flying and starting to get withdrawal symptoms, :He He:  it just seems strange that I didn't actually need any of this in the first place, but I guess that's the magic of computers, anyway I will let you know what happens.

 

Grateful thanks,

 

Guss

 

Update,

 

Much appreciation and thanks in order for your kind help Christian, Fix 1, FSUIP4 did it, although a little shaky at first with a black loading screen where the plane should be, and no runway only clouds and back, 2 try's and 2 reboots later, all is well I am up and running, and very much the wiser.

 

Great stuff and thank you

 

regards

 

Guss

[messifan34 10]

Have you tried in win 7 ? I have necer in win 7 had that problem with the ngx

[(Guss) Kemp 13]

Nice find Christian.

 

I wanted to share something I too found strange, might help someone else.

 

I wasn't able to use bcdedit, when I typed "bcdedit /enum" I would get this: "The boot configuration data store could not be opened. The system cannot find the file specified." I found out that my C: drive's hidden partition containing the MBR needs a drive letter assigned to it before bcdedit will work. This also fixes peoples problems with completing a successful system backup. Just wanted to share.

 

I wonder if having an SSD as my boot drive has anything to do with this?

Now theres a thought. ?

 

My plan was to have an SSD boot drive og 120GB, and an SSD just for FSX + add ons at 240Gb, I hope SSD's wont be too much trouble,

Oh my  :Thinking:

that's for the next build though

regards Guss

[FSXChris 2]

Hello Guss,

please excuse me - of course I can see your PC specs you wrote in your profil. But until now I didn't realize that. Sorry, I'm totally new and in the last days my thoughts were circling only around this strange FSX behavior  :unsure: .

I'm also suffering under withdrawal symptoms, but this time soon will be over  B) . Currently I'm in progress to install all other software on my PC and after that I'm already looking forward flying online on IVAO.

 

Regarding the SSD drive: I have a 512GB SSD as my main boot drive. And all the important software (inclusive FSX is installed on this drive). Personally I don't think that installing FSX on a separate SSD will be that beneficial. As far as I understood, the main argument to install FSX on an other drive was that Windows then can access the pagefile on drive C simultaneously to accessing FSX on the other drive. As I have 12GB of RAM, I disabled my pagefile anyway, so there is no need for windows to access this. And the few system files need to be processed can be easily read during gaming, because a SSD should be fast enough to allow all these operations. So for me, I'm fine with a single, large SSD + some normal HDDs for backing up and storing data.

 

@messifan

I tried WIndows 7 before. And beside the "end flight" crash I never had problems. Maybe Windows 7 is handling the virtual user-memory for 32bit applications a little bit different than Windows 8. You can also see this on the fact that Guss had no such menu-crashes as I had. So an Windows 7 the chances are very high that by a simple installation of FSUIPC you can fix all your worries. But on Windows 8 64bit (at least on my computer), you also need to set the virtual user-memory too.

 

Best regards,

Christian

 

PS: @Guss, of course will I keep my fingers crossed for you. I am anxious to hear from you and I'm hoping this will also resolve your problems.