More attacks against OrbX by NickN over at Flight1

[PingPong 60]

I can't help but feel very cynical about all the angst, protest and outrage over FTXG.

 

All the people complaining in this thread and others, including NickN - where were you when Scenery Tech released their landclass products where the installers included a new lclookup.bgl? Oh and by the way their uninstallers didn't work properly either. I don't seem to remember such levels of outrage and protest about Scenery Tech?

 

Orbx were pretty transparent about what they were doing with FTXG, and nobody is under any compulsion to purchase it. I can't help but feel all the manufactured outrage is about more than just a new lclookup.bgl

 

IIRC the scenery tech installer gives the option to install the new lclookup.bgl or not.  And it comes with an uninstaller(I have never heard anything about the uninstaller being faulty tho').  So the decision is completely in the hands of the consumer.

 

I agree with you about the level of "outrage" being excessive and it is probably stoked by many people having negative interactions with the Orbx forums and JV. 

 

The way I see it, Orbx made an error and the axe-grinders are capitalizing on it.

[FSMP 95]

IIRC the scenery tech installer gives the option to install the new lclookup.bgl or not.  And it comes with an uninstaller(I have never heard anything about the uninstaller being faulty tho').  So the decision is completely in the hands of the consumer.

 

I agree with you about the level of "outrage" being excessive and it is probably stoked by many people having negative interactions with the Orbx forums and JV. 

 

The way I see it, Orbx made an error and the axe-grinders are capitalizing on it.

 

Additional advantages / disadvantages of good PR.

[mmann 72]

 

 

Once you fly in FTX Global textures, discussions about uninstalling it become as relevent as Part exchanging your battered old Fiat for a Ferrari Testarossa, then worrying "how you'll get the Fiat back if you don't like the Ferrari".

 

It could be if you found out the "Ferrari" was actually a pimped up Ford Pinto. B)

 

I had it installed but had to uninstall it as the areas I fly were too green! Like a pimped up green Ford Pinto you might say.

[Alan_A 1,650]

 

 

...where were you when Scenery Tech released their landclass products where the installers included a new lclookup.bgl?

 

Was that the one that turned off the FSX seasons?  I seem to remember going through that problem a couple of times during FSX installs - can't recall the product, but there was definitely an lclookup.bgl that had to be renamed in order to get the seasons back.

[robmw 22]

I want to set the facts straight here as far as I’m able because I’ve had a concern about the way FTX Global is installed and what is does to FSX from the day I first installed it last week. Please be clear that I use and enjoy many FSX scenery products both from Orbx and others including GEX, UTX etc. I respect both Nick for his expertise and long-time contributions to the hobby and the Orbx developers – my experience there goes back to the VOZ days in FS9. I have no affiliation with any developer other than as a long-time purchaser of FSX add-ons and I simply wish to keep reasonable control over what is installed and configured on my PC system so that whatever I choose to install works as the developer intended.

 

I must say that I’m not happy about the way FTX Central no longer has a default option to return FSX to its pre-FTX Global state but even though this was stated by John Venema he also said publicly that there would be an uninstaller with FTX Global on release.

 

Anyway, the facts to date:

 

Fact - Backup copies of some of the files are available in an Orbx folder with the exception of the original terrain.cfg on my system but I can't say what would happen after an install of FTXG without any prior FTX products having been installed. 

 

Fact - Backup copies of the files lclookup.bgl and the autogen descriptions are available in the Orbx\scripts\backup folder with the exception of the original terrain.cfg on my system but I can't say what would happen after an install of FTX Global without any prior FTX products having been installed first. 

 

Fact - A backup of the terrain.cfg file exists in a different location in the Orbx scripts\FTX Global\backup folder. However, there is also a rather stern note in that folder that tells me never to move this backup file, that if I do Orbx software will not work and Orbx will not give me any support (‘!Important - Backup Readme.txt’).  This note also refers to having the ability to uninstall FTX or to switch to FTX OFF mode (the old FTX default switch which has disappeared with FTX Global).

 

What I gather from this is I may not move the terrain.cfg or change its contents. However, it seems to me that a user who is not technically confident may read that notice and think they cannot even use that terrain.cfg file backup to recover if it is ever needed. That isn’t true and the wording used is misleading in that it declares that a user should never remove the file or change its contents but what Orbx fails to specify in their documentation is that this file can be used to recover or switch back to FTX default mode or switch back to what the user was running prior to FTX Global being installed.

 

Note also that on my system there are no warning text files added to any of the other script sub-folders, except in the FTX Global\backup folder itself! So it appears that Orbx is trying to tell me to not use my original backup file for anything.

 

Fact - There is currently no automated method of any kind to restore these backup copies to their proper locations – to the contrary Orbx appear to be dissuading me from doing anything manually with the files that could be used to restore with that stern warning. This is very concerning to me because of the next two facts;

 

Fact - As far as I can see there are no comprehensive instructions provided by Orbx explaining how to recover manually and even if there are they are not promoted at the current time in any meaningful way. Nor is there is any documentation on the details of what they did or how to reverse it or switch back if a user wishes to do so and again there’s that warning advising me not to switch those files on my own.

 

Fact - Orbx no longer allows switching with FTX Central where I might want to use another product in different regions of the world and simply switch when needed. This was always a feature with Orbx in the past and FTX Central was specifically recoded for FTXG so putting all these facts together I feel these changes must have been planned.

 

This has taken me some time to put together and might seem unnecessary by many of you but what’s clear is that the underlying issues are being glossed over. In summary, Nick appears to be correct in his statements of the effects of FTX Global and questions remain to be answered by Orbx. What happens when an uninstaller is released is yet to be seen but I think as it stands right now what Nick has posted is true and should not be obscured by the fact that he is the developer of a competing product.

 

Rob W

[B777ER 2,489]

First, we get the "bible," where Nick talks down to the flight sim community with his preaching rants and condescending commentary. And now this. As far as I'm concerned, we're all better off without him.

 

To be fair, NickN's nvidia inspector settings are the best I have ever had and the best the sim has ever looked for me. He is a pretty knowledgeable guy.

[Holdit 551]

I want to set the facts straight here as far as I’m able  [big snip]

 

Thanks for throwing some light on this. As someone who is in neither camp it's good to get some facts coming through a lot of the partisan nonsense that quite frankly seems to be wandering into the foxtrot bravo zone on occasion. I don't own FTXG and don't intend to purchase it anytime soon, but I do intend to purchase Southern Alaska (Orbx) and the Caribbean (Flight1).  I don't understand the glee with which some people are predicting the demise of GEX etc, the more developers providing us with scenery products, the better off we all are. Competition is good, monopolies are bad - for the customer.

To be fair, NickN's nvidia inspector settings are the best I have ever had and the best the sim has ever looked for me. He is a pretty knowledgeable guy.

 

I'm getting reasonable performance out of my low-horsepower system after following a lot of his advice. I would disagree with him on the use of FPS limiters though, at least as far as my system is concerned.

[Parping Couplet 117]

Every industry has its rivalries and controversies and flight simulation software is no exception. It's called competition.

[TheDanger 182]

...........

 

Rob W

You have a lot to say for your 11th post after being a member for almost 5 and a half years along with your recent posts on the GEX vs FTXG debate!!

[mgh 89]

You have a lot to say for your 11th post after being a member for almost 5 and a half years

 

What's that go to do with anything - perhaps he only posts when he has something worthwhile to say?

[TheDanger 182]

What's that go to do with anything - perhaps he only posts when he has something worthwhile to say?

Lol Ok

[mganz121 159]

 

 

mgh, on 08 Aug 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:
What's that go to do with anything - perhaps he only posts when he has something worthwhile to say?

Lol Ok
0
Graham

 

And what a good unemotional post it was!

[Q_flyer 766]

Star Wars Fans:   (Yoda voice):  "Look at me... judge me by my post count, will you?"

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

2) If there were no backup files in current FTXG installations, the upcoming uninstaller would have to re-distribute "vanilla" FSX core files - doesn't this require permission by current FSX source code owner Lockheed Martin?

 

Lockheed Martin does not own the code for FSX. They licensed the code for ESP.

[Illegitimi non carborundum 4]

Reading all of these diverse opinions makes me realise how lucky we are to have a forum like AVSIM.  IMHO most of the posts here would be deleted in a trice if posted on either the simforums or ftx forums. So at least here we can air our views here - obviously within reason.

 

I can see both points of view in this argument and don't have a definitive opinion on either (fence sitter) but it would have been nice if both sides had got together to work out the best solution for us poor simmers rather than the way that it has been handled thus far.  But in this day and age we may prefer antagonism to synergy.

PeterH