Terminal area intersections

[SergioPT 8]

I am unable to select terminal area intersections in the T7, either as a fix or as a direct to waypoint.

For example, at Porto (LPPR) I can not select "PRXXX" ( like PR634 or PR633) in the FMC (unless they are present in the installed STAR) like in the 737NGX. I know that the FMCs from these two birds are different, so I wonder if this is correct and, if so, how should I proceed if the approach controller asks me to "fly direct PR634"?

[Flexman 30]

Those are names given to fixes defined by PBD or PBPB points by FSX. They are not the real published names. In fact some of these intersections aren't even fixes contained in the AIRAC. In case the default ATC directs you to one of these points, you should find out how to construct the point and draw it in your CDU though place bearing distance or place bearing place bearing points (or by using the FIX page).

[SergioPT 8]

Thanks for the input, Omar. Let's stick to the PR634 intersection example. It is part of published procedures (see attached AIP capture). Also, it is present in the "wpnavfix.txt" airac file from navigraph (see second attachement). As I said, in the NGX FMC I can enter it either in the FIX page or in the legs as a waypoint. Not so in the T7...  It is a somewhat common real life practice (also on IVAO) for the approach controller to direct traffic to one of these intersections, shortning the approach whenever possible. I just want to know (and ideally understand) why the T7 FMC behaves differently from the 737 regarding this.

[mosteen 111]

Interesting, but I would think they are not selectable as a "navdata" fixes, as you say; without having the STAR installed first.

 

When you have the relevant STAR selected, you would just up-select the PRXXX when ATC direct you to it. I can't see that as a problem, ATC would never direct you to that wpt without knowing that you are RNAV capable and that you are cleared for that STAR anyway?

[SergioPT 8]

Interesting, but I would think they are not selectable as a "navdata" fixes, as you say; without having the STAR installed first.

 

When you have the relevant STAR selected, you would just up-select the PRXXX when ATC direct you to it. I can't see that as a problem, ATC would never direct you to that wpt without knowing that you are RNAV capable and that you are cleared for that STAR anyway?

Actually, these points are often used in "fly direct" instructions even without a STAR assigned, providing you have RNAV. In low traffic periods, I have witnessed approach controllers instructing aircraft that have just entered / are about to enter the TMA to fly direct to PR634 (these waypoint corresponds to the begining of a "right base" for LPPR rwy35 and traffic often proceed for visual approach after PR634). 

[mosteen 111]

Interesting, did not know that, then I am at a loss too

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Huge thread about this already.

 

I've already reported it.

[SergioPT 8]

Thanks for the alert, Kyle. I believe it is better if we avoid dispersion and take the discussion there: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/419421-invalid-entry-terminal-waypoints-in-fmc/?view=findpost&p=2798061&hl=%2Bwaypoints

 

This topic can be locked.

[icemarkom 59]

Just an observation

 

One thing I noticed in both of these threads is there seems to be a difference in understanding this issue between FAA fliers and the rest of the world :-). Using fixes like this on approach apparently isn't very common in the FAA space, but it seems to be a regular occurrence in Europe.

 

As someone who flies only virtually and only in a space that emulates FAA rules on VATSIM, I have never encountered such a reroute. An interesting note should I dare try to fly over the pond.