Mindstar GNS 430/530 release this Friday

[twharrell 38]

I've been testing this package for the past week or so and it is very nice.

 

The GPS package will be released this Friday on Mindstar's website. Projected cost is $50USD, which includes both units with crossfill capability.

 

So far, I have used the gauges in the MilViz Cessna 310, A2A Cessna 172, Aerosoft Twin Otter Xtended, and the RealAir Turbine Duke.

 

The navdata for both gauges can be kept current using a separate AIRAC subscription from RealNav.

 

WAAS will be added early 2014 and there will be no charge for the upgrade.

 

All of Mindstar's products are compatible with P3D v1.4 and v2.0 (and FSX, as well as FS9).

 

Todd

[tttocs 301]

 

 

So far, I have used the gauges in the MilViz Cessna 310, A2A Cessna 172, Aerosoft Twin Otter Xtended, and the RealAir Turbine Duke.

 

Todd, can you say any more about integration?  How well it works: driving gauges properly autopilot coupling, how easy it was (particularly in the Duke or 172 - I can imagine it should be fairly simple in the 310) and so on.

 

If not, I can understand and will wait for more on Friday.

 

Scott

[Lusche 3]

I'm also interested in that ...

 

how did you integrate it to the a2a 172 and ra duke ?

does the vc clickspots work ? (properly not) so you have to use the 2d gauges ?

also does it work with the ap and com/nav radios ?

 

and what functions are missing besides the waas (will will come sooner or later) compared to the reality xp gns ?

 

edit:

also is there a difference in those two airplanes when using mindstar instead of reality xp (like somethings not working properly/at all)

[hoser70 40]

Excellent news!

[GHarrall 494]

Great, this means I dont have to worry about Reality XP not supporting P3D.

 

Another roadblock bites the dust....

[pmanhart 176]

This is awesome!

 

Thanks for the heads up, my plastic is primed.

[vonmar 123]

I've been testing this package for the past week or so and it is very nice.

 

The GPS package will be released this Friday on Mindstar's website. Projected cost is $50USD, which includes both units with crossfill capability.

 

So far, I have used the gauges in the MilViz Cessna 310, A2A Cessna 172, Aerosoft Twin Otter Xtended, and the RealAir Turbine Duke.

 

The navdata for both gauges can be kept current using a separate AIRAC subscription from RealNav.

 

WAAS will be added early 2014 and there will be no charge for the upgrade.

 

All of Mindstar's products are compatible with P3D v1.4 and v2.0 (and FSX, as well as FS9).

 

Todd

 

"The navdata for both gauges can be kept current using a separate AIRAC subscription from RealNav."

 

How much does it (the subscription) cost .. per cycle / per month / per year etc?

 

Do it integrate into VC cockpit of the aircraft you mention?

 

Is it supported by Real Air Duke ?

 

"WAAS will be added early 2014" ... I may have just wait until this bit is released .. verified working.

As I now have 4 purchased aircraft that are not "complete" yet.

[twharrell 38]

Regarding integration:

 

VC integration is very hit or miss for now. VC cockpit modelling is so variable. It's not as simple as replacing the panel.cfg entry like yo can accomplish with 2D panels. Many aircraft developers up until now have had to create an alternate VC panel to incorporate RXP gauges and that required working with the RXP developer. As you know, that developer is nowhere to be found. Once Mindstar's gauges get into the flight sim market, then hopefully more developers will jump on board and work with Mindstar to allow integration into their VC cockpits. I was able to get both gauges into the A2A C172 and the "fit" was near perfect, considering the alternate VC cockpits were made for RXP integration. Some panel.cfg tweaking still has to be done, but so far everything seems to function just fine. In the RealAir Duke (I have the Turbine version) you cannot integrate into the VC. Again, their alternative VC's are for RXP only and since I don't own RXP gauges, I am unable to access the other VC's through their configurator tool. The RealAir developers, who were awesome in responding to my emails, said simply putting Mindstar's gauges into their VC's designed for RXP won't work. I hope that RealAir will contact Mindstar and figure something out. Until then the 2D gauges work perfectly, and I have been happy with that. The same thing goes for the Twin Otter Xtended. I'm trying to get more info on how the VC was created to see if it is even possible. But, again, the 2D gauge works perfectly.  I use the Mindstar G1000 in the MilViz C310 VC and it works quite well. The GNS units can be placed in the VC but the gauge alignment is off enough that the knobs don't work. The VC gauge dimension are just different enough to prevent correct alignment, but I'm trying to reach the MilViz folks for a solution. Until then, the 2D Gauges work beautifully.  I know some folks will be disappointed by this, but realize everything up until now has been geared toward RXP integration. Things will change with Mindstar's release but it will take some time. It hasn't affected my enjoyment as I  do all my gauge manipulation with the 2D pop-up anyway, plus functional integration is perfect (Flight directors, Autopilots, HSI, and COM/NAV work as expected).

 

Comparison with RXP:

 

This can be a sensitive subject, as I am not a fan of RXP. I used to be a RXP user with FS9 up to a year ago. Never used FSX. And since RXP does not work with P3D, I just gave it up. I am not happy that the developer just went AWOL on everyone, and I think it is wrong for the gauges to continue to be sold with zero support from the developer. Bert Peicke, who is truly one of the most selfless people in our flight sim community, has given a lot of his time to help RXP customers with technical issues. He did a lot to help me with FS9 issues. I do sense, even he is a little irritated the developer is a complete no-show these days.   So, I come into this with a bad taste in my mouth regarding RXP. I want to be up front about that.

 

RXP and Mindstar have approached the Garmin GNS430 and 530 in a completely different way. RXP essentially took the Garmin trainer and somehow was able to manipulate it in such a way so that it could be used in flight simulator. The gauge is Garmin's gauge. The integration is RXP's.  That is why a new Garmin trainer is needed to get any AIRAC updates, the latest being from the newer GTN 650/750 series. WAAS was implemented because Garmin updated it's trainer to simulate that function.

 

Mindstar, on the other hand, built both gauges from the ground up. They also built the G1000 from the ground up.  Everything from the visual model to function was coded by the software engineers at Mindstar.  That is why you can update the nav data every year and not depend on a Garmin trainer to do it. These gauges are not new. They have been used, and are currently being used, exclusively by RedBird in their simulators for years.  In fact, even the steam gauges in those simulators were designed by Mindstar.  So, any of you real world pilots who have used a RedBird simulator during their training are already very familiar with the Mindstar GNS 430/530. Mindstar also has many other cool gauges/avionics packages that we will never see in the flight sim hobby community, at least not for a while, simply because they are way too complex to distribute at a price point affordable by your average hobbyist. Just know that Mindstar's primary focus is the commercial sim marketplace. I say all of this so that you become familiar with who Mindstar is. You can be assured both GNS gauges are fully functional and complete, minus a few AUX pages (Terrain page for example is not functional) and VNAV, which are functions not required by commercial sims for training. WAAS is being implemented in 2014, not because they couldn't do it, but because you have to have, 1) access to nav data that supports WAAS functionality and, 2) commercial customers who demand it. WAAS is now very much fully integrated into our airspace system. Commercial customers now demand it in their simulators. That brings me to:

 

 

RealNav navdata updates:

 

This is a huge bonus, in my opinion. I've been using Mindstar's G1000 in the MilViz Cessna 310 on Pilot Edge and have also used both the GNS 430 and 530 and, I have to say, having an updated AIRAC is a great feature of these units. Now, I realize this is not essential to some, and that's fine. You don't have to upgrade your AIRAC if you don't want to, but it sure is nice.

 

Some will ask, why RealNav and not Navigraph or NavdataPro? RealNav is one of the only commercial level navdata providers for flight simulators.  As all of Mindstar's avionics are primarily developed for real world simulators around the world, comprehensive navdata is a necessity for their commercial customers. What's the big deal with that? The big deal is, 1) WAAS data, and 2) data for small airports. Both Navigraph and Navdata Pro do not have access to that same data, and they don't need to as they cater to sim entertainment - that is mostly people who fly with an FMS to large international and regional airports. Ever notice an approach missing to your favorite small airport? Navigraph and Navdata Pro don't have that data. What about cost? The RealNav subscription is $40 annually for 4 cycles. Why 4 cycles? Consider the time and effort it takes to collect and assemble the world's navdata in a usable format. Commercial users pay $1000 annually for 13 cycles and $400 annually for 4 cycles. You only pay $40 for 4 cycles of commercial grade navdata. That includes current WAAS data. Folks, that is a big deal. RealNav deserves a beer and steak dinner for giving us home users a break like that.

 

So, this is a sweet package. Mindstar is going to be around for a while. If you have questions, call or email them. Stasi and his team are very accessible and will gladly answer your questions and help solve any technical questions.

 

Lastly, I went to my local flight school yesterday and took some pictures:

 

 

 

 

I hope I answered many of your questions!

 

Todd

[Lusche 3]

no vnav function is sad for me ...

hope someday they will include it :(

[twharrell 38]

Well, VNAV is not so simple to add. I talked to the developer about this and he explained the issue in detail. I'll do my best to explain here, but my explaination may be filled with errors. If so, the errors are mine alone. Here goes: 3rd party gauges with VNAV cannot drive the glideslope needle or flight director in default or 3rd party VOR gauges. You either have to hack FSX or P3D, which violates the EULA and any support agreement you have, or it requires you to create a custom VOR/HSI gauge that will talk with the GPS unit (hence the RXP flightline steam gauges). So, as this is not a feature in demand by Mindstar's commercial customers, it hasn't been added. The VNAV button will bring up a VNAV page, and you can change the fields, but it isn't functional. Not yet, at least. If enough people really want this feature, then perhaps it could be added later (that's me talking, not the developer).

 

Todd

[Lusche 3]

I thought the vnav function on the gns430/530 was just a calculator without interacting with the instruments.

just like you set where you want to be at what altitude and at what decent rate and it calculates when you have to decent and the needed rate to keep up with the calculation made like with the reality xp one.

haven't seen a real one and if the real one can interact with the instruments then yeah properly won't happen, but just the calculation when to decent at what rate would be way enough for me.

[tttocs 301]

Todd, thanks much for the detailed answers.  Much appreciated!

 

With P3D v2 coming, I wish Mindstar nothing but success with these.  I've expressed reservations in the past about the potential for Mindstar's products in FSX as, despite the issues you've brought up, I've been a very satisfied user of the RXP solution for several years (and a host of airplanes) now, and felt that in the FSX world any mousetrap built to replace them had to be unarguably superior.  The compatibility issue alone is huge.

 

But going forward, I hope to be a P3D customer and there the lack of RXP support leaves a nice (potentially large) opening for a GPS product catering to us GA enthusiasts.  Glad to see someone with a solid reputation stepping in.  With active support behind the products, perhaps integration won't be such a daunting task for developers, and going forward "Mindstar Integration" will become as big a selling point as "RXP Integration" has been up to now in the GA sim world.

 

The information on the RealNav data and the reasons behind that source were especially valuable, BTW.

 

Thanks again!

 

Scott

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

Gosh, it just seems like we could get one source of data for everything to use...pay once and everything's in sync.  Today I flew what was supposed to be an ILS into Austin and, guess what, no ILS signal.  My frequency was right and the RXP 530 had the right ID...just nothing there.  I ended up flying visual.  *sigh*

 

I have the RXP 530 in 7-8 different airplanes and I truly hope that it gets as solid as the RXP stuff.  It's greatly needed for P3D. 

[tttocs 301]

Gosh, it just seems like we could get one source of data for everything to use...pay once and everything's in sync. Today I flew what was supposed to be an ILS into Austin and, guess what, no ILS signal. My frequency was right and the RXP 530 had the right ID...just nothing there. I ended up flying visual. *sigh*

 

I expect your GPS was correct, but FSX... not so much.  It's one of the problems with nav data that's newer than what's in the sim.  You can update off-airport navaids in bulk, but airports are a different story.  I don't know if anyone's done an updated AFCAD for Austin - you might check.

 

Of course with WAAS approaches, FXS doesn't need to know about anything.

 

As for the data source thing, good luck.  Just imagine if you were flying IRL with your GNS530.  You'd be paying Garmin for the GPS data, and then someone else for legal charts, electronic, paper or both (Jepp, ForeFlight, whatever gummint regulates the airspace where you live...).  :blink:

 

This reminds me - somewhat off topic but still related.  Does anyone know if LM plans to update the navaid data for v2, or address future nav data updates?  I don't recall seeing this discussed.

 

Scott

[Guest JetFueler]

Is there any terrain detail included at all?  One thing I really like about Garmins is the road network (with labels!) along with lakes and so on.  I always found it a nice companion to VFR flight to be able to verify the roads out the window with the ones on the screen.  Flight1 has gotten the road database into their G1000 units so I know it is possible but they also have terrain/elevation data and considering that it was said that Mindstar doesn't have terrain implemented I am thinking that roads won't be displayed either.  Any info on this?