Is it feasible to incorporate the scimitar winglets in a future NGX update?

[Luis_KMIA 242]

I've been reading some posts about what some simmers want to see in a future NGX update, such as .wx import from PFPX or ActiveSky. 

 

This article mentions AS as being the latest airline to want to upgrade to the scimitar winglets that will be used in the MAX.  UA is currently using an -800 for FAA certification since they are the first customer.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/alaska-airlines-boeing-737-scimitar-winglets-2013-10

 

So my questions:

 

- Does PMDG have to enter into a new agreement with Boeing to get the new perfromance data?

- How long does it take to update the external visual model?

 

Just curious.

 

Happy flights!

[Kerlix 99]

I'm sure the WX import will be added with SP2.

 

For the winglets, I think that UA is just an operational testbed for them at the moment. I don't see PMDG going through all the trouble to update the FDE, visual model, etc. unless it becomes a standard feature on the NG's. Even then, it'll probably take a while for Boeing to gather enough data to be able to provide to outsiders (i.e. - PMDG).

 

If PMDG ever released the 737MAX, then they would probably be included. But because it hasn't really even flown yet and there's definitely a lack of data (except for on paper, which will most likely change in the real world application), I don't think PMDG would have the necessary resources/knowledge for quite some time.

 

 

As a purely visual update like the 747-8i........that may come at some point. But ATM I don't imagine them considering it as they're already shoulders deep in other projects.

 

 

But I really have no idea. It would be a nice additional feature. Absolutely. We can always hope.

[KriVa 307]

It will be an option to retrofit existing NGs with the Scimitar Winglet. Also, as a customer option, the Scimitar Winglets can be added in the factory for new NGs, once certified.

So, chances are PMDG will include them in a Service Pack... If data is available from Boeing.

[kevinh 409]

I could be wrong but I don't think PMDG get any aerodynamic data from Boeing. If they did the NGX pitch angle on approach problem would not have happened. So the new winglets would be another lift and drag tweak based on published information about fuel savings.

[Luis_KMIA 242]

I think scimitar winglets will become very common in real world BG fleets simply because of fuel savings. It's obviously PMDG's decision, but I would not mind a delay in an NGX update if it included them.

[Tabs 2,790]

I could be wrong but I don't think PMDG get any aerodynamic data from Boeing. If they did the NGX pitch angle on approach problem would not have happened. So the new winglets would be another lift and drag tweak based on published information about fuel savings.

 

I'm getting extremely tired of the way you jump to conclusions like this Kevin. That bug was very clearly explained when it happened and I think you're willfully ignoring that in order to puff yourself up here yet again. Enough of this - you have been warned. Keep it up and you are gone from this forum.

 

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To answer the question - we have no plans to implement scimitar winglets. It would basically require adding a third version of every variant of the airplane (non-WL, WL, Scimitar). I can ask if we can do it as a visual thing in SP2, but the chance of writing new performance models for it are basically zero - would be a ton of work for very little benefit given that this is a free update.

[kevinh 409]

I'm getting extremely tired of the way you jump to conclusions like this Kevin. That bug was very clearly explained when it happened and I think you're willfully ignoring that in order to puff yourself up here yet again. Enough of this - you have been warned. Keep it up and you are gone from this forum.

 

Ryan, before you pull the trigger to ban me, please at least let me respond. I don't want to lose my posting privileges, but freedom of speech is important too.

 

I resent the accusation that I'm trying to "puff myself up" here. Either you want informed contributions to the forum or you don't. When the interpretation of the unreliable airspeed table was mentioned as the reason for the approach pitch attitude problem it seemed reasonable to assume that Boeing aerodynamic data was not being used. The unreliable airspeed table is not aerodynamic data and if you had such data you wouldn't need to refer to it. I don't recall anything else being mentioned as being the cause of the attitude problem, but if that's wrong then I'll be happy to stand corrected. But please explain why, either in the forum or by PM.

 

I will avoid saying things which make inferences or assumption about PMDG in future. My aim is to be helpful, not critical. For example I offered help with your investigation into the VC eyepoint movement problem, to save you some time, but you didn't take me up on it.

[serviceceiling 135]

I'm getting extremely tired of the way you jump to conclusions like this Kevin. That bug was very clearly explained when it happened and I think you're willfully ignoring that in order to puff yourself up here yet again. Enough of this - you have been warned. Keep it up and you are gone from this forum.

 

==========

 

To answer the question - we have no plans to implement scimitar winglets. It would basically require adding a third version of every variant of the airplane (non-WL, WL, Scimitar). I can ask if we can do it as a visual thing in SP2, but the chance of writing new performance models for it are basically zero - would be a ton of work for very little benefit given that this is a free update.

 

Even if it's be only visual, I think everyone here would appreciate it. 

[Luis_KMIA 242]

 

 

To answer the question - we have no plans to implement scimitar winglets. It would basically require adding a third version of every variant of the airplane (non-WL, WL, Scimitar). I can ask if we can do it as a visual thing in SP2, but the chance of writing new performance models for it are basically zero - would be a ton of work for very little benefit given that this is a free update.

 

Thanks Ryan.  Like I said, just curious.

[hopskip 253]

I'd be fine with a visual-only model with the 'flying' the same as the normal winglets. Lots of time though, not many airlines with them yet.

 

I was on a flight on an A320 the other day and one of those A320's with the 737-800WL style winglets pulled up and got me wondering how long it will be before I see a 737 with a scimitar in real life.

[Luis_KMIA 242]

I'd be fine with a visual-only model with the 'flying' the same as the normal winglets. Lots of time though, not many airlines with them yet.

 

I was on a flight on an A320 the other day and one of those A320's with the 737-800WL style winglets pulled up and got me wondering how long it will be before I see a 737 with a scimitar in real life.

I think the UA test aircraft (an -800) ends trials by early 2014 for FAA certification.  Then UA and AS start the retrofit of their current NGs and will also receive new NGs with the scimitar winglets.  I think they will spread like wildfire with the other carriers, just like the blended winglets 10 years ago simply for the fuel savings.

[Luis_KMIA 242]

Today, Southwest is the latest to order them for its existing and future NGs, in this case the -800s.  I'm sure more will join the bandwagon.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140102-903282.html

[turner447 0]

Just read an article about these and did a brief search on here and knowing PMDG are considering it even if it's visual then thats a great start : ) 

 

Those little boeing just keep on going (not so little anymore)

[CaptKornDog 281]

Yep, appreciated, even if only visual (maybe like the 744 removable winglet option...at least I think I read that was only visual, not including performance).

 

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for a -900ER and P-8 too

[sddjd 117]

Same here, I'd be willing to spring for a model add-on that provided only the cosmetic side of the scimitars.