What real world 737 pilots think about PMDG

[camrad1983 10]

Hello folks,

I'm bringing a quote from a fellow pilot from the aviation forum where I hang out. I find this absolutely true. The same as geometry of cockpit windows. The 737NG looks kinda tall. In real life they have a smaller cockpit with overhead much lower than default pmdg virtual cockpit.

Personally, I dont fly 737, but I'm a real world pilot too, been in NG cockpit many times.

Here's the quote:

61000kg GW, below 10000ft. 280 to 250 kts deceleration time is twice longer than it takes on a real one. 1/3 descend ratio doesn't work (idle thrust). Vertical speeds while descending (idle thrust) are appx 30 percent less than desired. FCTM landing technique leads to a huge floating. Exactly the same way to land a real one works perfect. There is no nose-down pitch effect associated with thrust reduction. Looks like there is a small piston engine in the tail, helping her out

 

 

We need to do something about it, if PMDG is not doing anything towards this problem.

[willywonka 36]

Well, PMDG is only a (very serious) game and is not meant to be a trainer. But, those discrepencies do seem a lot... :huh: I think we and PMDG would need more detailed data from your test in order to verify and compare.

 

 

 

The 737NG looks kinda tall. In real life they have a smaller cockpit with overhead much lower than default pmdg virtual cockpit.

 

This and more are supposed to be fixed in SP2... whenever that is...

[Sergey Stoy 4]

Would you like to try those http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=sergey+stoyanov&x=18&y=9 tunnings...

[camrad1983 10]

Would you like to try those

 

Thank you, Sergey. We will give it a shot. Those are yours?

I think we and PMDG would need more detailed data from your test in order to verify and compare

 

I will talk to that person, although except parameters I really know how to record that data.

[Sergey Stoy 4]

There are mine - I tried to implement the real characteristics of the engine along with drag characteristics and lift ones as function of M.All the data is obtained from NASA articles where the drag and lift graphics are especially presented.As reference real AFM was used for the 800/900.My goal was to achieve 5% accuracy for cruise regime on N1 and the  hour fuel consumption.I have changed some of the most radical PMDG parameters as drag of the landing gear which was 3 times bigger than the drag of the whole aircraft on zero lift on low M. 

[camrad1983 10]

Good job I liked it. Although I noticed 737-800WL with your config tends to roll on idle while on ground, and I'm talking being 3/4 full with fuel and a normal flight load.

I know it can taxi on idle, but not that easy. What do you think about that?

[camrad1983 10]

Update. Can't go with these dynamics on your link, too many things not working right, after 2 hours of testing, I realized. Altough it does slows down better on descent clean or dirty, there are too many flaws like moving and picking up on idle (up to 30knots), messed up climb and porpoising big time in the air while turning at v2+10/15. People also reported 738 climbing 3000ft/min faster than original dynamics. Anybody else got some dynamics to test?

[HighFlyer310 21]

Guys, it is a flight simulator.. not only that, but a home PC version available from Microsoft.  I have a few friends who fly professionally.  They'll tell you even the Level-D sims they use in reccurrent dont exactly match RW characteristics.  Lets look at it for what it is.. attempting to emulate complex physics using numbers and coding, there is going to be some discrepancy.  I feel PMDG does the absolute best job at this within the confines of a home simulator where compromise requires delicate balance.  Now, as far as the cockpit geometry, I can attest that it needs some tweaking.. I work at ORD and have been in a few NG cockpits.. the distance between glareshield and overhead is much much narrower.       

[camrad1983 10]

Of course its a simulator (thank you, cap) and it is also a hobby which develops every year because of people that actually trying to make it as closer as possible to real world analog. If not for that, we would be stuck with FS98 sim.

For me it's not just hobby but also a training device, since I fly in RW, so now, if you are a pilot too you should know the main purpose of Fsim. It is to practice procedures and flows. So if a high tech simulation model like 737PMDG is busting 3 to 1 envelope, that means my procedures not going to be quiet right, correct?

I don't want to argue with you, but If you don't really have anything to give except a reminder, that it is a flight simulator, than you in the wrong thread. With all due respect to PMDG, there are people out there who are professionals at programming software not less than PMDG team, and who willing to contribute to flight simulation society for free so we, users, can enjoy it.  

For the windows, Ifly did it closer to real thing. But I can't use it after PMDG737.

By the way I stay by ORD too, fly from Executive KPWK. Cheers

[Kimo 14]

Just did a quick test flight 280 to 250 took 3 seconds longer then fctm published but remember fctm is a aprox number.
Descent rates were spot on compared to the fctm. Tested with and without speedbrakes.

So I dont undertand you problem :wacko:

[Tatave 57]

I've flown Level D 737 sims a handful of times, and I can say that the NGX's flight characteristics are probably 95% accurate. The REAL drawback is that most of us don't have professional FS yokes that feel like the real deal. The handling is different because of FSX hardware, but the flight dynamics are fantastic. 

[Sergey Stoy 4]

Yes, about the idle taxing there is an uncertainty - it is needed more tests because of some implemented dynamical frictions but generally speaking to adjust that is nor a problem at all;second in my opinion the aircraft now has good induced drag generated by the angle of attack.I think the climb performance is acceptable,cruse also,but I understand that the climb is a challenge because needs fine adjustment in the engine characteristics especially the transition between M levels.Everything could be done but needs a lot of testing, for me alone that is practically impossible.Just the adjust the primer engine graphs I have flown maybe 100 climbs...with more people involved we can adjust everything.The problem here is that for initial calculus I use approximated methods and after that goes the most difficult...long hours of taking off, climbing, adjusting and again and with different  TO weights the task is going crazy for one. PMDG however did tremendous job with the visual models adjustment and that makes the aircraft very well balanced and capable for fine adjustments...  

[HighFlyer310 21]

Of course its a simulator (thank you, cap) and it is also a hobby which develops every year because of people that actually trying to make it as closer as possible to real world analog. If not for that, we would be stuck with FS98 sim.

For me it's not just hobby but also a training device, since I fly in RW, so now, if you are a pilot too you should know the main purpose of Fsim. It is to practice procedures and flows. So if a high tech simulation model like 737PMDG is busting 3 to 1 envelope, that means my procedures not going to be quiet right, correct?

I don't want to argue with you, but If you don't really have anything to give except a reminder, that it is a flight simulator, than you in the wrong thread. With all due respect to PMDG, there are people out there who are professionals at programming software not less than PMDG team, and who willing to contribute to flight simulation society for free so we, users, can enjoy it.

For the windows, Ifly did it closer to real thing. But I can't use it after PMDG737.

By the way I stay by ORD too, fly from Executive KPWK. Cheers

For someone who shows little restraint critiquing things, you sure have a hard time absorbing it. Microsoft flight simulator was NOT meant to be professional training software.. Developers are as I said, limited on what they can do with it. In order for them to get VNAV to function accurately, they may have had to make a slight deviation from the "book" in descent characteristics. There are a thousand variables that go into making a complex sim within a somewhat less complex world. Outside of that.. If your worried about your RW procedures being tarnished, I would invest in some RW flight training. Oh and btw I do hold an airmen certificate, I have about 200 hours in a 152 and gliders.. Does that make me a 737 pilot now?

[tsa737 6]

Tom,

 

You are 100% on the mark in your reply.  No where in the PMDG documentation does it state or imply that if one flew the FSX 737NGX by PMDG, they'd be qualified to fly the real thing. There is no claim that one can use the add on and hone one's skills to then be applied in the real world.

 

I am not a pilot in the real world, and my use of FSX is to get a taste of real world flying; but I am realistic enough to know that I won't be ready to fly a real 737 tonight.

 

I enjoyed your insight

 

Rob Marton

[Ash Brennan 4]

Reality check here:

 

FSX is a GAME, for "entertainment purposes only."     The PMDG 737 is a toy that works with your FSX game, but is also designed solely for entertainment.     It's fun to pretend with these toys for grownups, but one must make a clear distinction here between fantasy and reality, along with the expectations from both.    

 

A bit like comparing a Matchbox toy car with a real Formula One racer and being disappointed by the toy's comparative performance.      And no, the PMDG 737 doesn't adhere to the real 737's flight characteristics in accordance to the FCTM during landing flare or many, many other regimes of flight for that matter.    Yet, for a $59 toy it's a heck of a lot of fun, don't you think?