Radar Contact Flight Planning

ap1 · April 24, 2014

Could you please provide some tips for flight planning with radar contact? I need help with creating flight plans for Radar Contact. I'm using the FSX default planes with the standard Garmin GPS. I would like to be able to use SIDS and STARS in the flight plans also. If I can't do this with the default GPS, then that's OK to. If someone could walk me through a flight, I would be very grateful. Also, the FSX data that I have for the navigation waypoints is outdated. I wouldn't like to have to update FSX either. So basically, I would like to know how to perform a successful flight with Radar Contact and the default GPS in FSX. I mainly fly using the default 737, but sometimes go into the C172 also. Oh, and I have read the manual but it didn't answer all my questions unfortunately. Thanks very much.

ronzie · April 24, 2014

FSX and RC will pull waypoint names from a flight plan in that format which contains the waypoint name and its coordinates. I do not know if the Garmin will show waypoints not in its database.

Here is a flight filed today with the FAA and completed:

KLAX HOLTZ9 TRM J169 TFD J50 SSO J4 EWM J66 FUZ J42 TXK J42 ARIGY J42 MEM BWG HNN FEWGA2 KPIT

The outdated database of FSX will not expand SID HOLTZ9 nor STAR FEWGA2 into its waypoints. If in its database the J route waypoints should be expanded by the FSX planner.

The SID and STAR waypoints and the enroute waypoints must match the plans sent to FSX (and your nav gear) and to RC to sync them.

Read in the manual about the three types of departures in RC. These will give you lots of options.

For the arrival read about the two types of approach modes using vectors or selecting an IAP.

In both cases points of the SID or STAR will lie in the enroute/center portion of RC. Include these and RC will follow as best it can.

This route came from the free access flightaware.com searching for a route between KLAX and KPIT. Clicking on a selected flight brought up the window with its route.

On the lower left window of the flightaware main page enter the airport code and click INFO. On the window that opens click the IFR tab. Download the full bundle .pdf of all procedures which includes the airport diagram. Now you have charts for the STARs and SIDs that show the waypoints in them to place in your plan.

For runway specific SIDs and STARs just include the common waypoints for all runways. In most cases these are chosen by arrival and departure directions and use a common waypoint on the route airway for the entrance and exit transition points to the STARs and SIDs as noted in the example.

I can't get into more detail now but the consider purchasing a flight planner such as fsbuild 2.4 or flightsim commander. These have the capability of expanding the SIDs, STARs, and airway routes into waypoints for the FSX plan. Subscribe to a one-off AIRAC update from navigraph.com or navdatapro from Aerosoft.com to update the planner data. Then it should be close to the data on flightaware and other sites where filed plans are available.

Here's an advanced paper I wrote about this:

fsb tips and update.pdf

Just take what you can get out of it.

Using fsbuild here's the example route in FSX format:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>

<SimBase.Document Type="AceXML" version="1,0">
    <Descr>AceXML Document</Descr>
    <FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
        <Title>KLAX to KPIT</Title>
        <FPType>IFR</FPType>
        <RouteType>HighAlt</RouteType>
        <CruisingAlt>37000</CruisingAlt>
        <DepartureID>KLAX</DepartureID>
        <DepartureLLA>N33° 56' 32.00" , W118° 24' 29.00",</DepartureLLA>
        <DestinationID>KPIT</DestinationID>
        <DestinationLLA>N40° 29' 29.00" , W80° 13' 57.00",</DestinationLLA>
        <Descr>KLAX, KPIT</Descr>
        <DeparturePosition>25R</DeparturePosition>
        <DepartureName>LOS_ANGELES_INTL</DepartureName>
        <DestinationName>PITTSBURGH_INTL</DestinationName>
        <AppVersion>
            <AppVersionMajor>10</AppVersionMajor>
            <AppVersionBuild>60905</AppVersionBuild>
        </AppVersion>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KLAX">
             <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 56' 32.00",W118° 24' 29.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>KLAX</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="DOCKR">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 55' 57.00",W118° 27' 00.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>DOCKR</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="WEILR">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 54' 35.00",W118° 29' 05.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>WEILR</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="SHAEF">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 51' 19.00",W118° 33' 47.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>SHAEF</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="PEVEE">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 41' 49.00",W118° 31' 14.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>PEVEE</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="HOLTZ">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 38' 40.00",W118° 20' 34.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>HOLTZ</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="TRM">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 37' 41.00",W116° 09' 36.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>TRM</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="BLH">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 35' 45.00",W114° 45' 40.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>BLH</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="SALOM">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 30' 58.00",W113° 53' 19.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>SALOM</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KOFFA">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 27' 48.00",W113° 20' 56.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>KOFFA</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="TFD">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 53' 09.00",W111° 54' 31.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>TFD</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="TOTEC">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 49' 35.00",W111° 38' 31.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>TOTEC</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="ITEMM">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 35' 11.00",W110° 35' 23.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>ITEMM</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="SSO">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 16' 09.00",W109° 15' 47.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>SSO</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="EWM">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N31° 57' 06.00",W106° 16' 20.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>EWM</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="BGS">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 23' 08.00",W101° 29' 01.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>BGS</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="ABI">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 28' 52.00",W99° 51' 48.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>ABI</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="FUZ">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N32° 53' 22.00",W97° 10' 45.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>FUZ</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="TXK">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N33° 30' 49.00",W94° 04' 23.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>TXK</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="WASKO">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 03' 36.00",W92° 38' 38.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>WASKO</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="MATIE">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 05' 41.00",W92° 33' 02.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>MATIE</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="JOLET">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 11' 55.00",W92° 16' 14.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>JOLET</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="ARIGY">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N34° 32' 07.00",W91° 20' 49.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>ARIGY</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="MEM">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N35° 00' 54.00",W89° 58' 59.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>MEM</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="BWG">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N36° 55' 43.00",W86° 26' 36.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>BWG</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="HNN">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N38° 45' 14.00",W82° 01' 34.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>HNN</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="JPU">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N39° 26' 28.00",W81° 22' 29.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>JPU</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="PYRAT">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N39° 32' 14.00",W81° 16' 56.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>PYRAT</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="AIR">
             <ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 00' 59.00",W80° 49' 01.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>AIR</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="WISKE">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 07' 44.00",W80° 40' 33.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>WISKE</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="FEWGA">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 11' 14.00",W80° 35' 53.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>FEWGA</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="BBLAK">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 15' 56.00",W80° 29' 34.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>BBLAK</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="GOLDH">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 20' 33.00",W80° 17' 57.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>GOLDH</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="JOEPA">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 22' 13.00",W80° 13' 42.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>JOEPA</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="GUINZ">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 24' 00.00",W80° 09' 11.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>GUINZ</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="CYDNY">
             <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 23' 45.00",W80° 00' 17.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>CYDNY</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KPIT">
             <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
             <WorldPosition>N40° 29' 29.00",W80° 13' 57.00",</WorldPosition>
             <ICAO>
                 <ICAOIdent>KPIT</ICAOIdent>
             </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
    </FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
</SimBase.Document>

The SIDs, STARs, and airways have expanded waypoints. Copy this into a text file with the .pln extension and you can see how this loads into the B738 and Garmin nav gear.

ap1 · April 24, 2014

Ok I'll try to load that plan into the GPS. I guess there's not really any other ways to create a flight plan for radar contact with the default airplanes it seems like. Maybe I'm wrong though. I wouldn't like to have to have to buy addon planners. It would be nice to just use the default planner.

ronzie · April 25, 2014

RC accepts FSX html formatted plans as well as FS8/FS9 formatted plans. Files from the FSX planner should be accepted. As long as the format is correct RC does not care about its contents.

I only mentioned perhaps getting an add-on planner so it can be updated to use current charts. If you get an add-on FMC/FMS aircraft the right planner may also put out a format for import by the FMC/FMS.

A one-off AIRAC update in as many formats needed is $10 to $15 dollars which would update in most cases the add-on planner and the SID/STAR data in the FMC. You would only need one planner that fits your requirements such as;

http://www.fscommander.com/ at about US $40, a one-off AIRAC update at about EURO 4 for navigraph.com FMS data:

http://www.navigraph.com/FmsDataPricing.aspx

or Aerosoft Navdata Pro for US $10:

http://www.aerosoft.com/cgi-local/us/iboshop.cgi?showdsearchnavdata+pro:010010!0,6671925390,D11684

so including one current cycle that is a about a $50 investment for a planner.

For the more complicatedslightly but more flexible FS Build at EURO 27:

http://secure.simmarket.com/ernie-alston-fsbuild-2.phtml

with the same AIRAC upgrade options it would be US$ 5 or $10 more.

note that some will work with P3D versions 1.x and 2.x. You might have to get a freeware flight plan converter floating around to convert FSX to P3D plans for P3D.

I would consider this a worthwhile one time resource investment and should you get something like an I-Fly 737 or PMDG 737NGX you without additional cost be ready for their FMCs.

I do not know if FSC allows route grid editing like FS Build to create one plan for your nav equipment and an extracted plan for RC as I pointed out in my .pdf.

I only bring these up to get around outdated data in FSX.

If that plan I created for you to test works in the Garmin then one of these planner plus AIRAC options will do for you now.

I have also seen freeware files for upgrading intersection and navaid waypoints for FS9 and also there may be some for updating FSX. Install those carefully because some may modify the default FS data files containing waypoint and navaid data which in some cases can cause problems.

You might query in the FSX forum here about the planner taking airways as a syntax parameter and if it will output the waypoints for the airway but of course the data will not be current.

I don't have a dropbox yet for attachments so here badly formatted is the route plan navlog for a 737NG at 37,000 feet. I did not specify taxi time, extra time, etc for fsbuid's fuel planning but here you can see how the airways and SIDs/STARs and airways are expanded into waypoints. The ATC column of each line is the FIR or ATC center or approach covering this area of the route.

                      FSBUILD FLIGHT PLAN
FLT REL IFR    KLAX-25R/KPIT-28L MACH LRC A/C B737-700 W/ CFM56-7B24
           FUEL TIME    CORR   TOGWT    LDGWT   AVG W/C
TAXI      000375 0015 . . . . 136814   114198 P000
DEST KPIT 022616 0448 . . . . ELEV. 1203 FT
RESV      003109 0045 . . . .
ALTN      001088 0015 . . . . ALTN KCLE   DIST 91
HOLD      000000 0000 . . . .
EXTRA     000000 0000 . . . . ZFW 110000      PAYLOAD 027000
TTL AT TO 026814 0548 . . . .                  DIST 2092
REQD      027189 0603 . . . .                  ETD

CLB BIAS 0.0% CRZ BIAS 0.0%   DSC BIAS 0.0%
DEP BIAS 0 MIN 0 DIST 0 FUEL, ARR BIAS 0 MIN 0 FUEL

KLAX HOLTZ9 TRM J169 TFD J50 SSO J4 EWM J66 FUZ J42 TXK J42 ARIGY J42 MEM BWG HNN FEWGA2 KPIT/0448

                        M/H FL                   WIND   ATC
TO          NM AWY     M/C TAS G/S   ZT ACTME ETA ATA ACBO ABO REM AREM

N3355.9/W11827.0       241 CLB                 000000 LAX
DOCKR       002 HOLTZ9 241 324 324 00/00 00/00 .../... 0000/... 0267/...

N3354.5/W11829.0       218 CLB                 000000 LAX
WEILR       002 HOLTZ9 218 324 324 00/00 00/00 .../... 0001/... 0266/...

N3351.3/W11833.7       216 CLB                 000000 LAX
SHAEF       005 HOLTZ9 216 324 324 00/00 00/01 .../... 0003/... 0264/...

N3341.8/W11831.2       154 CLB                 000000 LAX
PEVEE      0010 HOLTZ9 154 324 324 00/01 00/03 .../... 0007/... 0261/...

N3338.6/W11820.5       096 CLB                 000000 LAX
HOLTZ       009 HOLTZ9 096 324 324 00/01 00/05 .../... 0010/... 0257/...

N3338.8/W11646.9       076 CLB                 000000 LAX
TOC         059 HOLTZ9 076 355 355 00/10 00/16 .../... 0031/... 0236/...

N3337.6/W11609.6       077 370                 000000 LAX
TRM 116.20 009 HOLTZ9 077 446 446 00/01 00/17 .../... 0032/... 0235/...

N3335.7/W11445.6       078 370                 000000 LAX
BLH 117.40 070 J169    078 446 446 00/09 00/26 .../... 0039/... 0228/...

N3330.9/W11353.3       083 370                 000000 ABQ
SALOM       044 J169    083 446 446 00/05 00/32 .../... 0044/... 0223/...

N3327.8/W11320.9       084 370                 000000 ABQ
KOFFA       027 J169    084 446 446 00/03 00/36 .../... 0047/... 0220/...

N3253.1/W11154.5       103 370                 000000 ABQ
TFD 114.80 080 J169    103 446 446 00/10 00/47 .../... 0056/... 0211/...

N3249.5/W11138.5       092 370                 000000 ABQ
TOTEC       014 J50     092 446 446 00/01 00/48 .../... 0057/... 0210/...

N3235.1/W11035.3       092 370                 000000 ABQ
ITEMM       055 J50     092 446 446 00/07 00/56 .../... 0063/... 0204/...

N3216.1/W10915.7       094 370                 000000 ABQ
SSO 115.40 070 J50     094 446 446 00/09 01/05 .../... 0071/... 0196/...

N3157.1/W10616.3       085 370                 000000 ABQ
EWM 112.40 153 J4      085 446 446 00/20 01/26 .../... 0087/... 0180/...

N3223.1/W10129.0       072 370                 000000 FTW
BGS 114.30 245 J66     072 446 446 00/32 01/59 .../... 0113/... 0154/...

N3228.8/W9951.8        077 370                 000000 FTW
ABI 113.70 082 J66     077 446 446 00/11 02/10 .../... 0122/... 0145/...

N3253.3/W9710.7        072 370                 000000 FTW
FUZ 115.70 138 J66     072 446 446 00/18 02/28 .../... 0136/... 0131/...

N3330.8/W9404.3        070 370                 000000 FTW
TXK 116.30 160 J42     070 446 446 00/21 02/50 .../... 0152/... 0115/...

N3403.6/W9238.6        060 370                 000000 MEM
WASKO       078 J42     060 446 446 00/10 03/00 .../... 0160/... 0107/...

N3405.6/W9233.0        063 370                 000000 MEM
MATIE       005 J42     063 446 446 00/00 03/01 .../... 0160/... 0107/...

N3411.9/W9216.2        063 370                 000000 MEM
JOLET       015 J42     063 446 446 00/02 03/03 .../... 0162/... 0105/...

N3432.1/W9120.8        063 370                 000000 MEM
ARIGY       050 J42     063 446 446 00/06 03/10 .../... 0167/... 0100/...

N3500.9/W8958.9        065 370                 000000 MEM
MEM 117.50 073 J42     065 446 446 00/09 03/20 .../... 0174/... 0093/...

N3655.7/W8626.6        054 370                 000000 MEM
BWG 117.90 207 DCT     054 446 446 00/27 03/48 .../... 0195/... 0072/...

N3845.2/W8201.5        063 370                 000000 IND
HNN 115.90 236 DCT     063 446 446 00/31 04/19 .../... 0218/... 0049/...

N3852.6/W8152.9        042 370                 000000 IND
TOD         010 FEWGA2 042 446 446 00/01 04/21 .../... 0219/... 0048/...

N3926.4/W8122.4        043 DSC                 000000 IND
JPU 108.60 041 FEWGA2 043 311 311 00/07 04/29 .../... 0221/... 0046/...

N3932.2/W8116.9        043 DSC                 000000 IND
PYRAT       007 FEWGA2 043 311 311 00/01 04/30 .../... 0221/... 0046/...

N4000.9/W8049.0        043 DSC                 000000 CLE
AIR 117.10 036 FEWGA2 043 311 311 00/06 04/37 .../... 0223/... 0044/...

N4007.7/W8040.5        051 DSC                 000000 CLE
WISKE       009 FEWGA2 051 311 311 00/01 04/39 .../... 0223/... 0044/...

N4011.2/W8035.8        053 DSC                 000000 CLE
FEWGA       005 FEWGA2 053 311 311 00/00 04/40 .../... 0224/... 0043/...

N4015.9/W8029.5        053 DSC                 000000 CLE
BBLAK       007 FEWGA2 053 311 311 00/01 04/41 .../... 0224/... 0043/...

N4020.5/W8017.9        070 DSC                 000000 CLE
GOLDH      0010 FEWGA2 070 311 311 00/01 04/43 .../... 0224/... 0043/...

N4022.2/W8013.7        070 DSC                 000000 CLE
JOEPA       004 FEWGA2 070 311 311 00/00 04/44 .../... 0225/... 0043/...

N4024.0/W8009.1        070 DSC                 000000 CLE
GUINZ       004 FEWGA2 070 311 311 00/00 04/44 .../... 0225/... 0042/...

N4023.7/W8000.2        100 50                 000000 CLE
CYDNY       007 FEWGA2 100 311 311 00/01 04/46 .../... 0225/... 0042/...

N4029.4/W8013.9        306 DSC                 000000 CLE
KPIT        012 FEWGA2 306 311 311 00/02 04/48 .../... 0226/... 0041/...

Now, the route line from flightaware.com was pasted into the route line window in fsbuild with adding the departure and destination ICAO airport codes. I do not know if FS Commander has that ability.

ap1 · April 25, 2014

I think you may of misunderstood what I was saying. I'm talking about using the default 737 and GPS. Now of course the waypoints in my FSX is outdated. So what I was asking is if there's another way to use current charts with the default GPS without having to update anything.

ronzie · April 25, 2014

I think you may of misunderstood what I was saying. I'm talking about using the default 737 and GPS. Now of course the waypoints in my FSX is outdated. So what I was asking is if there's another way to use current charts with the default GPS without having to update anything.

First, please see how the plan I supplied loads into FSX and looks on the default Garmin. This plan represents waypoints of current charts.

If that works then you know a planner that uses current waypoints works if that plan I created contains waypoints not in the FSX database. That is a first step acid test!

Now, get a current SID chart .pdf downloaded. Here's one:

http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/HNL/DP/MOLOKAI+FOUR/pdf

Select a departure direction, then create the start of a plan by entering the airport and waypoints (choose a direction that uses intersections, that's the concern, in the FSX planner. Now I don't know if any of the waypoints are not in the FSX database so you can see if they work entering them into the planner. If they are not in the FSX planner than the coordinates will not be known. You can using FSX's drag method in the editor of getting a similar route with what waypoints are in it.

Before we go further, check out these two items and then we'll discuss enroute regarding high altitude and low altitude airways.

Now, a commentary

The advantage of a good planner that allows currency updating at least once in my opinion can not be overstated. The roughly $40 fsbuild 2.4 with one $5 or $10 update will last you a long time. It even has auto-routing for charts not available. If you wish pay $5 or $10 for an annual one-off update.

I use flightaware for FAA charts and for European Union members I use the free registration of Eurocontrol. For Europe I use the auto-routing feature in the planner. Like with the FAA charts I print out what I need. For UK alone there is another site called AIS for UK airports that does not require any registration.

Commercial flights and many private flights, especially IFR, use area navigation which includes intersection (intersection VOR radials) as waypoints. This is the RNAV term and is used with GPSs as well. VORs can be used as RAW data location or as coordinates for RNAV or combination of both techniques.

When I was doing real world private piloting (although I had a VFR restricted commercial license) I used two VOR receivers to determine the interscetion of two VOR radials. There was no GPS back in the early 70s as it was just getting started. In a general aviation aircraft (first a Piper PA28-180 and then a Beechcraft 36 - a conventional tail Bonanza - I did two cross countries from the Minneapolis, MN area to the East Coast Bridgeport, CN area (50 miles north of Manhattan on Long Island Sound) for personal visits. Being VFR I was not restricted to airways but I most used them for keeping with coordinated traffic observation. I used sectional and WAC charts for planning. There was no in aircraft device which had a waypoint database of coordinates, no GPS/RNAV guidance, etc. It took quite a bit of planning time to plot the routes on paper and file optional flight plans with the FAA (for safety like search as rescue).

Now I did short flights from my home airport in Anoka, MN to Duluth, MN and also Ironwood, MI. I tried recreating these in the FS8 planner and unless I used VOR-VOR it was difficult. I had a freeware planner with an FS8 database called I believe just NAV. I later got the update version for FS9. Unfortunately database updates for it were no longer available and since I upgraded to FS9 and much later started with the PMDG B73xNG models I opted for FSBuild which exported to its FMC. However FSBuild was much easier to use even for VFR planning.

If you are going to emulate jetliner flying, default models or others, and there are very good models in the libraries here, the requirements are to use controlled ATC as IFR is and what RC is meant to be used for although you can depart and land in uncontrolled airports.

I emphasize again that for current chart use you need to get the waypoints into the FSX plan format with current labels and coordinates. The FSX database must have these for the planner to be successful. That is how I understand your question and relates to the problem you are facing.

Here is a link of interest:

http://rfinder.asalink.net/

The free version does not export files. The subscription version at $15 for 6 months has file exporting and allows SID/STAR translation. I am not sure of its currency.

My opinion is that at that subscription price of $30 total for one year if you get one of the planners I suggested you check out for a two year total for route finder you'll break even with getting fsbuild or fs commander and two AIRAC updates and get a lot more features with updates as little or as much as you want at $5 or $10 each.

Again, I am referring to your query on chart currency and planning using them.

I flew

ap1 · April 25, 2014

Ok I'll try putting in the lat and lon for the waypoints I see on the charts. I think that will solve it. Thanks.

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