Making the Switch

[Humpty 751]

Hmm I should not be mentioning XPX in the P3d forum but Why not also give a try to XPX , download the demo and check it out maybe you may like it.

[okupton 309]

Thanks Iron Maiden.  I did consider XPX, but I have invested too much in FSX addons to move over to XPX.  XPX does look great at times.

[Humpty 751]

Thanks Iron Maiden.  I did consider XPX, but I have invested too much in FSX addons to move over to XPX.  XPX does look great at times.

 

Better check out if those FSX add ons work without any trouble with P3d.

 

 Yes XPX looks great especially in Canada and certain Countries in Europe. But it does lack in certain areas which at times does have its disappointments.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

It's not like there aren't 737s, 777s and other 3rd party tubeliners for P3d, but until the flagship products from PMDG are released for P3d, the sim truly can't be considered as a top of the line product for that purpose. It's just a matter of time before the PMDG products for P3d start showing up and the same can be said for TacPack (for those of you who like working combat aircraft).

[virtualstuff 758]

$60 product ... there's your target

 

Flight simulators require some knowledge and effort to make work well ... I think MS Flight was about the only product that didn't require too much work/effort to get it running well.  But it also didn't have much depth and clearly was targeting at an audience that was VERY small (the casual flight simmer).  Nothing against casual flight simmers, to each his or her own, it's just that market is obviously pretty small.  Part of the attraction to flight simulation is the difficulty ... be it flight planning and setting up an FMC or just learning how to start a Cherokee on a cold morning.  In other words, the huge range on flexibility meets the huge range of what people like to do with flight simulators.

 

FSX has bugs (none being address), P3D V2.x has bugs which are being address, XP10.30 has bugs and some do get addressed ... bugs will always exists.  If Microsoft can't make a bug free OS (with 1000's of resoruces) what chances do you think LM or LR would have?

 

For some people, it's just one small bug and they toss in the towel game over, immersion killed, yada yada -- so what about the 1,000,000 million other aspects of the product that are working fine - they don't count/ignored?  

 

I just recently got some comments about how the clouds look like crap and "cotton balls", etc. etc. ... but not a single mention that trees I just flew over in my video are really just big X's ... go figure?  Flight simulation is about compromise and it will always be about compromise ... if someone gets fixated on a single tiny detail, they'll never be happy with any flight simulator ... they'll just move on to the next tiny detail.

 

 

 

 

I got Micro stutters in FSX, more so than in P3D ... I was still able to enjoy FSX, not sure why it would suddenly be different for P3D.  I've manged to reach a point in P3D where I don't get micro stutters, all I needed to do was figure out what my CPU/GPU could handle and adjust the graphics settings ... pretty simple, same process I used for FSX.  Are there some add-ons that cause Micro-Stutters, sure ... Orbx extreme grass setting, a lot of UT2 AI traffic, certain aircraft ... how do I manage that, simply turn some features down or off ... same thing I did in FSX only in P3D I'm able to keep many more features enabled.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

With respect Rob but your hardware isn't the average lol and I don't have stutters in FSX...

Your experience isn't necessary the norm for what should be acceptable or not or normal for that matter...

 

As for understanding software and hardware well I pretend to be an ace local ;-)

It's based on a clean install without 3e party software, wonder why i would do that :blink:

 

I embrace Prepar3d but it's not up to my personal standards with average settings regarding performance ;-)

 

Thanks for explaining to me after all those years lol what could cause stutters.

 

Anyway just have fun gentlemen in whatever sim it's all about your personal expectations I just shared mine.

[Mickeyj 35]

$60 product ... there's your target

 

Flight simulators require some knowledge and effort to make work well ...

 

I can second that what Rob here just wrote. It is not about the detail its about the whole product. If somethings not right for me i turn down some settings or play with numbers in the cfg. As P3D2 is under constant development there are always solutions for bugs and the community is a great help too. In this context i usually used -you complain about a $60 piece of simulation software, man, go try a $40 million jet airliner.

 

So there are a lot of aspects of P3D2 are great(shadows, lighting, more trees , at least for me no OOMs, 3d waves great backwards compatibility or solutions how to get FSX add ons to work) some sucks (no working rotor wash effects and i cant get em to work but at least i got rid of the big white square scenery clipping bug) 

[Guest]

With respect Rob but your hardware isn't the average

 

I have no idea what's deemed "average" on PC front ... my system is well below what the latest gen i7 5960X can do.  My i7 3960X is now 3 generations old ... not complaining, it's done well but it's starting to show it's age.

 

I think the biggest hurdle many folks have with moving to P3D from FSX is their belief that because their GPU worked well in FSX it would work well in P3D.  Many are discovering that's not the case (in FSX a 680GTX was as good as a Titan Black) ... and with a good GPU comes the need for a good CPU to keep up with the GPU.

 

EDIT: like I said before P3D V2.x was release, DX11 doesn't mean higher FPS, it means it can do more hardware accelerated "new features" but that doesn't mean it can do it faster "overall".  Try and do cloud shadows and software tessellation in FSX under DX9 -- frame rates would go from 60 to 6 fps (and I'm being optimistic because I know how slow software tessellation is vs. hardware accelerated tessellation via DX11).

 

Plenty of people not having "Micro Stutters" -- I honestly don't understand how that term came to be ... I think people associate it with a short wait for a frame to display vs. a long wait for a frame to display ... at what point a stutter transcends the boundary into "MicroStutter" I have no idea -- they're all delays in seeing a frame on the monitor (which may or may not be related to waiting for a frame to render - many other factors involved).

 

 

 

As for understanding software and hardware well I pretend to be an ace local ;-)

It's based on a clean install without 3e party software, wonder why i would do that

 

Good, glad you've managed the product to work with your hardware.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

TacPack (for those of you who like working combat aircraft).

 

I inquired about TacPack ... but got the "we're looking into P3D" but nothing confirmed -- you have any more info on that Front?  The product capabilities look fantastic!  Would love to see it in P3D.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[virtualstuff 758]

I have no idea what's deemed "average" on PC front ... my system is well below what the latest gen i7 5960X can do.  My i7 3960X is now 3 generations old ... not complaining, it's done well but it's starting to show it's age.

 

I think the biggest hurdle many folks have with moving to P3D from FSX is their belief that because their GPU worked well in FSX it would work well in P3D.  Many are discovering that's not the case (in FSX a 680GTX was as good as a Titan Black) ... and with a good GPU comes the need for a good CPU to keep up with the GPU.

 

EDIT: like I said before P3D V2.x was release, DX11 doesn't mean higher FPS, it means it can do more hardware accelerated "new features" but that doesn't mean it can do it faster "overall".  Try and do cloud shadows and software tessellation in FSX under DX9 -- frame rates would go from 60 to 6 fps (and I'm being optimistic because I know how slow software tessellation is vs. hardware accelerated tessellation via DX11).

 

Plenty of people not having "Micro Stutters" -- I honestly don't understand how that term came to be ... I think people associate it with a short wait for a frame to display vs. a long wait for a frame to display ... at what point a stutter transcends the boundary into "MicroStutter" I have no idea -- they're all delays in seeing a frame on the monitor (which may or may not be related to waiting for a frame to render - many other factors involved).

 

 

Yes Rob indeed and that's why you should start with a basic install and tone down those sliders to the point where

your hardware should be capable to render the stuff (or even below that level with enough headroom) in a timely manner.

As for Prepar3d you could choose two different routes to test CPU - GPU or the GPU - CPU route.

 

It's wise in general to have a system in balance and avoid bottlenecks hardware and software ;-)

 

But Nvidia and LM aren't optimized to begin with so is FSX lol...

(ps... as for your hardware I didn't meant your CPU or mobo lol, but a Titan isn't average)

 

Anyway there are some bugs in the terrain render engine.

I leave it at that and no need for me to discuss it further in a public forum, I just was surprised that it seems acceptable

for some fellow simmers including yourself to have fluctuations in frames to the point that it doesn't give a smooth experience as I understood here above.

Don't want to start a debate about one versus the other which is pointless...

 

Rob thanks for sharing your insights appreciated, but I have a different opinion of what should be acceptable or not.

[Guest]

 

 

Anyway there are some bugs in the terrain render engine.

 

What are the bugs?  ... please share.

 

FSX got an nVidia profile a long time ago ... so did P3D v1.4 ... if you look at the profile details via nVidia inspector it actually says v2 in one of the description fields however that same profile existed before P3D V2.x so I'm assuming is some internal reference.

 

 

 

I leave it at that and no need for me to discuss it further in a public forum, I just was surprised that it seems acceptable

 

Are you referencing stutters as being acceptable?  Every game/simulation I have when pushed graphically will stutter (regardless of hardware) ... if I couldn't accept a stutter here and there I wouldn't be here or using my PC for anything other than work related.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I inquired about TacPack ... but got the "we're looking into P3D" but nothing confirmed -- you have any more info on that Front?  The product capabilities look fantastic!  Would love to see it in P3D.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Rob, I'm not sure of whom you "inquired", but the authors have posted that they have been working on the P3d version for several months now and the latest news was that the last hurdle is getting the FLIR etc., working properly under DX11. Parts of their official forum can't be seen without being a registered owner of their products, but this is a direct quote from the developer dated 9/12/14

 

 

 

Just a question, will the P3dv2 version have a working FLIR, HMD etc. (experimental features) with DX11?

 

thanks

 

Rockme

 

Post by adiemus » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:25 pm

 

Yes. Getting those features working is essentially the last hurdle to clear for a P3Dv2 release. But it's a big hurdle, so it's not going to happen overnight.

 

I'd guess the 1Q 2015 for a TacPack release, since the FLIR did not work under DX10 in FSX either (only DX9) and that really reduces the realism if you can't use IR guided missiles.

 

The lack of TacPack capabilities in P3d is the only reason that I have still have FSX installed. Many of the TacPack 3rd party aircraft are now only being developed for P3d. They fly in P3d 2.3, but the weapon systems are non-functioning. Dino C's F-35 (included with P3d)  is TacPack capable and a real gem with working weapon systems. There is also another large scale add-on called FSX@War that hosts the entire battlefield:

 

http://fsxwar.net/index.php?lang=en

 

It is presently in closed beta, but no P3d version has been announced.

Anyway there are some bugs in the terrain render engine.

 

 

Uh, what? Are you referring to the bug in the recent nVidia drivers? That's not LM's fault. P3d is incredibly stable, given how complex it is and how many different platforms it has to run on. When I was using XP10, I used to marvel at its stability and grumbled at FSX and all it's bugs, tweaks and quirks.

 

Now P3d has reached that XP10 level of stability. Could it be better? Of course. To make it better or for that matter to make XP10 better, the only solution these days is to buy new hardware. Sad but true. There are no magic "fixes". Or just wait for LR and LM to make improvements. Microsoft certainly isn't going to improve FSX.

[Guest]

 

 

Anyway there are some bugs in the terrain render engine.
I leave it at that and no need for me to discuss it further in a public forum

 

Come on Andre, there's a bug but it's top secret and not to be discussed in a public forum?  LM have been very transparent (especially with bugs) ... P3D isn't some covert operation, it's the extension of a long standing flight simulator series.  Comments like this would carry more credence if you were going to discuss them.

 

 

 

It is presently in closed beta, but no P3d version has been announced.

 

Excellent, this is good news ... P3D as is with the F22 (with weapons attachments) I've been able to track aircraft and lock aircraft with the AIM-9 and AIM-120 but never able to successfully fire the weapon.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hi Rob,

 

Performance does drop some when running the iFly 737NG when compaired to default aircraft, but it did that in FSX as well. Also keep in mind I run a triple monitor setup at a res of 5760x1200.

 

 

P3D 2.3 is far superior to FSX as far as having a smooth running sim (left FSX on day one of P3D's release and never looked back) and as of today, the iFly 737NG is the best NG available for P3D (IMHO).

 

Sorry I don't have any other 3rd. party aircraft installed, 99.9% of my time is spent in the 737NG-800 so I don't have any other aircraft installed. The only other aircraft I plan on installing (when ready), will be the PMDG series of aircraft.

 

I'm also running a top end system, so YMMV.

 

KJFK all setting maxed (except AI) 18.5fps

 

 

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

 

Hi Mike,

Do you have any performance issues with the iFly 737NG? I don't have the product and have looked at it a few times but I see a lot of people reporting performance issues with the iFly 737NG. The CS 777 performs about 33% lower than the Airbus X (i.e. CS 777 = 20 fps and Airbus X = 30 fps at same location/weather/settings) ... Does the iFly indeed perform lower than the CS 777?

[FLAPS15 8]

Sorry to say but P3d does stutter period.

 

I have reported this over at the LM forum no I do not tax my system I never run with any AG and still the scenery stutters every few seconds. This is either a rendering issue or a graphics driver issue. No amount of NI will correct the issue.

 

I never give up easily on anything but this is trying my patience..to the extent I do not use it even though it looks fantastic, however smooth is better that eye candy....

 

I have left this with LM if it is fixed great of not....no big deal I will just continue with the other sim....

[newtie 533]

 

 

Also keep in mind I run a triple monitor setup at a res of 5760x1200.

 

If you're using Surround, how did you manage to get 1200? I can only render 1080 on a Dell UltraSharp 2550 x 1440.

 

Mark

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hi Mark,

 

It depends on your monitors resolution, each of your monitors max res may only be 1920x1080. I know my Samsung Syncmaster  T260HD monitors are capable of 1920x1200.

 

 

If you're using Surround, how did you manage to get 1200? I can only render 1080 on a Dell UltraSharp 2550 x 1440.

 

Mark