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Capt Speirs

FSX ATC does not follow PFPX flight plan

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I think there's a huge market gap here although I can't even begin to imagine how tough it could be to write a solid ATC addon. But, then again, I also can't imagine how tough it is to accurately code/recreate a modern airliner... yet several developers have that down to a science...

 

I think there is a large market gap too. But just as you I can't imagine the work that has to go in to such an add-on.

 

I've been wondering if it is possible to make region-specific ATC-add-on's. Like a modular ATC add-on that for instance delivers ATC for Southern California or Norway.

 

Maybe that would create the possibility to program more custom, per airport policies and phrases, which could make the whole experience more realistic.

 

But once again I have no idea if that's even possible and how much work and cost would go in to such an endeavour.

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No one has mentioned pilot2atc   which is voice only at the moment  and  you get  a 14  day or so free trial  to see if you like it

 

http://pilot2atc.com/


I7-800k,Corsair h1101 cooler ,Asus Strix Gaming Intel Z370 S11 motherboard, Corsair 32gb ramDD4,    2  ssd 500gb 970 drive, gtx 1080ti Card,  RM850 power supply

 

Peter kelberg

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Have you considered flying online on Vatsim (or IVAO )? It's for free, you get real people providing ATC who are trained to do that. IMHO no program can achieve the same flexibility and unpredictability (in a good sense) than these online networks. The drawback is that you often only have ATC coverage in specific regions. I therefore often fly online and use an ATC program and switch the latter off when Vatsim ATC goes online.

 

As for the existing ATC programs that I know and use, here is a quick comparison.

 

1) VoxATC. includes voice interaction, but you can also let the co-pilot do the work. It uses the synthetic voices on your PC, so if you have a Win 7 system with Microsoft Anna on it, VoxATC will sound somewhat robotic. I use Ivone voices, which make it sound quite good, but these voices are pricey. It has a demo, so just try it out. It is under active development.

 

2) Pro-ATC. This program has been heavily criticized in the past (including by me) for its bugs, but the latest version is actually working very well. It includes a flight planner, a moving map, handles SIDs and STARs as well as taxi instructions in the ground. The voices are provided by real people, but there is no voice input. It might become the best ATC program around, but unfortunately there is no demo version. It is under active development.

 

3) Radar Contact. This is a pretty old program (2007?). It does support SIDs and STARs, but it doesn't provide ground services and has no voice control. Some people still like it a lot, but it wasn't for me. No demo version and no further development.

 

4) Default FSX ATC. It doesn't work that badly, in particular on the ground, but its lack of support for SIDs and STARs make all approached fairly repetitive. I have learned a lot about ATC by going beyond it, and in particular from flying on Vatsim.

 

Peter

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I hope some developer is noticing over the last couple of years that the sim world as we know it is missing a good ATC program for our hobby. I think this is the most important add-on for FSX that has not been perfected. I have posted in other threads, this ATC subject has been the most disappointing to date for our hobby. As fas as what the best ATC there is not any, all the ones listed above are good programs for what they do. But for now, I am not using the default ATC, and I am holding on to my money in tell one comes out. But I will admit I have not heard any news on one being developed.

 

I think PRO ATC is probably leading the pack when it comes to ongoing developement but as one member pointed out its not the most realistic as the other two. I understand that RC4 in 2007 was a home run however it's no longer being developed, so I would not spend money on a product that is currently not being improved.

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Despite some good, even terrific efforts, ATC provided by AI is never going to be realistic. I too fly on VATSIM. Started over 8 years ago and I wouldn't ever go back to flying offline. Like Peter said, it's free!

 

OVPA is lining up to teach 4, one hour courses in a virtual classroom that gives people the basics of flying a commercial airliner (with FMS) on the basics of what the need to fly online, with talk of having a Duty Mentor available to answer questions.  The first course should begin in late February and will be given every weekend.  Like VATSIM, the course is without charge, simply doing it to give back to the community and expose more people to the incredible experience of flying online.


Dave Hodges

 

System Specs:  I9-13900KF, NVIDIA 4070TI, Quest 3, Multiple Displays, Lots of TERRIFIC friends, 3 cats, and a wonderfully stubborn wife.

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Thanks for the heads up on the OVPA training, please keep us posted as the training dates get closer.

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Thanks for the heads up on the OVPA training, please keep us posted as the training dates get closer.

 

Hey John, I'd be happy to. The best way to receive the update is to sign up (register) on our website, which adds your email address to our distribution list.  You'll also receive our Online Pilot Newsletters as they are published.  We don't send out junk mail.

 

 

 

.


Dave Hodges

 

System Specs:  I9-13900KF, NVIDIA 4070TI, Quest 3, Multiple Displays, Lots of TERRIFIC friends, 3 cats, and a wonderfully stubborn wife.

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I think PRO ATC is probably leading the pack when it comes to ongoing developement but as one member pointed out its not the most realistic as the other two. I understand that RC4 in 2007 was a home run however it's no longer being developed, so I would not spend money on a product that is currently not being improved.

 

John, you're going to be waiting a very long time. It's quite possible there will not be another ATC program in the market place simply because many people already have their solution.

 

Until Prto-ATCX has correctly enunciated commands I won't even consider it. RC4 might be 7 years old but it still works as well as the day it was released. If I'm being picky there are some things I would like it to do better like some more variation on assigned flight levels or speed checks when on approach. But these aren't crucial - they're just niceties.

 

What it does do well is give you instructions to safely complete a flight from A to B without the silly altitude changes that the default has. And it doesn't constantly instruct you to contact multiple centres during your flight. It gives you precise instructions which it expects you to follow or you get chastised when you park.

 

ATC programs are extremely difficult to program with advanced mathematical skills required to determine where your aircraft is, where other aircraft are and how to get you safely from A to B. That's why you don't see a profusion of them in the marketplace.

 

VATSIM etc. is very good if you have the controllers for the route and airports you're flying from/to. But if you're flying to unusual places you'[re probably on your own. And if you live alone, are flying online and the doorbell rings... then it can be a problem.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Ric,

As it happens, someone has recently posted an AVSIM 737 video tutorial using Pro ATC X, which will give you a good idea of how it sounds.

The video is here:

http://forum.avsim.net/videos/view-331-ifr-flug-hahn-edfh-br%C3%BCssel-ebbr-boeing-737-800-ngx-klm-cpt-tristan-arnhold/

 

Go to min 11.50 for some typical transmissions - or trawl the full video to hear from the start.

Eugene

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VATSIM is crushing all of these ATC addons IMO. In my opinion it's a must have extension for FSX. It massively increased my knowledge, motivation and immersion. I wouldn't fly without it. I recommend it very highly. It does require some effort, but then again, I would think that people that are into flying advanced airliners wouldn't have any issue with putting in an effort to learn their hobby


vatsim s3

1133704.png

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Ric,

As it happens, someone has recently posted an AVSIM 737 video tutorial using Pro ATC X, which will give you a good idea of how it sounds.

The video is here:

http://forum.avsim.net/videos/view-331-ifr-flug-hahn-edfh-br%C3%BCssel-ebbr-boeing-737-800-ngx-klm-cpt-tristan-arnhold/

 

Go to min 11.50 for some typical transmissions - or trawl the full video to hear from the start.

Eugene

 

At 26m 20s ATC enunciates flight is "cleared to two thousand feet QNH 0" Ouch! That has to be a bug surely? Even with no weather there would be a pressure set in FSX weather.

 

Another comment. When cleared for take-off there is an instruction to contact departure on "one two seven decimal five". But after landing he's instructed to "contact ground on one one eight point zero five". And then the pilot acks with "one eighteen point zero five".

 

All frequencies in ICAO airspace should be with decimal and consistently enunciated by both controller and pilot.

 

I know Pro-ATCX isn't to FAA/ICAO standards but this would have to change before I could consider swapping. The inconsistencies would drive me mad.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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At 26m 20s ATC enunciates flight is "cleared to two thousand feet QNH 0" Ouch! That has to be a bug surely? Even with no weather there would be a pressure set in FSX weather.

 

Another comment. When cleared for take-off there is an instruction to contact departure on "one two seven decimal five". But after landing he's instructed to "contact ground on one one eight point zero five". And then the pilot acks with "one eighteen point zero five".

 

All frequencies in ICAO airspace should be with decimal and consistently enunciated by both controller and pilot.

 

I know Pro-ATCX isn't to FAA/ICAO standards but this would have to change before I could consider swapping. The inconsistencies would drive me mad.

I think VOXATC is the one I am going to try.

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Another comment. When cleared for take-off there is an instruction to contact departure on "one two seven decimal five". But after landing he's instructed to "contact ground on one one eight point zero five". And then the pilot acks with "one eighteen point zero five".

 

All frequencies in ICAO airspace should be with decimal and consistently enunciated by both controller and pilot.

 

 

 It add's to the diversity of how you hear it in real life I guess, right or wrong. Different countries within ICAO have different phraseology standards, in reality you hear a good combination of how freq's are said, some are within the guidelines and others not quite so much. It's also hard to group the FAA and ICAO into the same when it comes to phraseology, there are MANY differences out there.


i7-13700KF, 32gb DDR4 3200,  RTX 4080, Win 11, MSFS

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I think VOXATC is the one I am going to try.

 

Have you checked out pliot2atc at all gives you a 14  days free trial period


I7-800k,Corsair h1101 cooler ,Asus Strix Gaming Intel Z370 S11 motherboard, Corsair 32gb ramDD4,    2  ssd 500gb 970 drive, gtx 1080ti Card,  RM850 power supply

 

Peter kelberg

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 It add's to the diversity of how you hear it in real life I guess, right or wrong. Different countries within ICAO have different phraseology standards, in reality you hear a good combination of how freq's are said, some are within the guidelines and others not quite so much. It's also hard to group the FAA and ICAO into the same when it comes to phraseology, there are MANY differences out there.

Hard to say if that's how real world pilots would enunciate frequencies. I would expect them to adhere to the rules of the area they're flying in. 'Heavy' is used in FAA airspace but not ICAO. Back when it was flying BA Concorde pilots included 'heavy' when contacting FAA Controllers but not when in British airspace. Small points of course and not a deal-breaker for many when considering the merits of any ATC program.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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