Where to Find Vectoring Procedures

[deckerloyd 0]

Good afternoon T7 Pilots,

 

I recently read through the last tutorial put out by PMDG, I think it was v1.5. The tutorial walks you through an IAD departure with great detail especially in the vectoring procedures in the D.C. area.

 

Where do you find this information? I'm very familiar with IFR plates but I've never seen any SID/STAR go into any more detail than just "expect radar vectors prior to XXXXX". In airports such as JFK and ORD where vectoring is a very complex and necessary method of operation, I'd love to know how they do it. Is there any reading available or a way to find the procedures the ATC's follow so that I can simulate it in Flight Sim?

 

I was wondering since whoever wrote Tutorial 1.5 must have learned the IAD vectoring procedures somehow.

 

Thanks in advanced!

Decker

[BIGSKY 316]

You would need a hand held aviation scanner,and follow the aircraft though each frequency change.Or go to the airport specific VATSIM website,they may have close to real world procedures.

[vadriver 248]

the new york vatsim website (www.nyartcc.org) has a comprehensive SOP (with flow guides) to show how its arrivals / departures are vectored in different wind / operating directions & in coordination between both major & smaller airports nearby.

 

you can see after also looking at flightaware how "real" the SOP is !!

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

I was wondering since whoever wrote Tutorial 1.5 must have learned the IAD vectoring procedures somehow.

 

LOL I think Kyle was just showing off a little.  He has extensive knowledge professionally and personally in the IAD airspace.  For the rest of us:  I've spent a lot of time watching airplanes on flightaware.com.  If the weather cooperates, you can watch the same flight over a period of time to see patterns and how the patterns change with North or South flow.  Most places are easy to figure out where there are only one or two major airports.  Places like DC are a mess because of all the restricted airspace and multiple busy airports KDCA KIAD kBWI and don't forget Andrews AFB and others.

 

Where are you flying for Uncle, William?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I was wondering since whoever wrote Tutorial 1.5 must have learned the IAD vectoring procedures somehow.

 

As Dan mentioned, that knowledge actually came from a mix of contracting with the FAA (where I occasionally worked in the building next door to Potomac TRACON), and many years on VATSIM. The amount of knowledge you can pick up on VATSIM can actually be pretty immense, despite it being just simulated ATC. Since a lot of VATSIM groups use real world SOPs in their training, it actually gets pretty close to the real thing. As an example, when flying real world, I know just about all of the frequency change locations, and area frequencies in Potomac, all from VATSIM. It's helped me out quite a few times.

 

While I ran through all of that to help people understand that vectoring isn't as simple as many would believe, and potential ways to use the tools in front of you to help self-vector, coming by the knowledge isn't easy. Apart from watching flight paths on FlightAware, or digging through SOPs on VATSIM sites (most leave them out publicly), there isn't much out there. Some airports out there really don't have much in the way of vectoring guidance to controllers because traffic levels are so low, or their airspace is relatively open. Others, like IAD and DCA, have higher traffic and confined airspace (partially because of each other). Of course, BWI complicates that picture, but that area of the TRACON has relied a bit less on vectors for over a decade, which makes it easier to fly in/out of in the sim.

 

The Shenandoah Area (the area of the TRACON handling IAD, among others), together with the airlines, attempted to put two pilot-nav (zero vectors involved) SIDs out in the past handling the flight path we were using in Tutorial #1.5, but they never really ended up getting used due to spacing concerns. If you can find some charts out there, you'd notice a familiar flight path. They were called the STOIC and PRYME SIDs (introduced at two separate times - once around 2002ish and again around 2008). It attempted to have the FMC fly the aircraft around the average vector path controllers still use today.

 

I really wish I had a better answer to give you on this one, but the other answers (especially with watching FlightAware to see their tracks on the Airport Page) are about the best one can get without too much extra effort.

 

Then again, as far as JFK goes, we have this, which was created/organized by one of the guys I worked with back in my FAA contracting (arrivals are solid/animated lines, departures are dashed): http://tfmlearning.fly.faa.gov/NY_Airspace/NY_Airspace_Pkg/NY_Airspace.swf

http://tfmlearning.fly.faa.gov/NY_Airspace/NY_Airspace_Pkg/NY_Airspace.swf

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

Then again, as far as JFK goes, we have this, which was created/organized by one of the guys I worked with back in my FAA contracting

 

I love little apps like that!  Not a surprise that all those tracks resemble what can be seen on flightaware.  Another fun location to decipher is KSFO/KOAK/KSJC... that place is amazing.