FSX-MS How effective are Trackirs ?

[sharky101 0]

Is it worth upgrading from Track IR 4 to 5?

 

I am finding that it a great product had it for years but when I try and look down it only goes so far and then stops so I cannot look at throttles on a 737 for example.  I have calibrated many times but it doesnt allow me to look at all the cockpit.  Any advice please anyone.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[TheFamilyMan 279]

Chris are you using the TIR clip?  I've found that over time the reflectors on the clip can get bent out of alignment which has the effect of greatly limiting the tracked range of head motion.  At one time I was about to retire my TIR4 until I figured out this problem.  Now that my clip's reflectors are well aligned I can 'look' down onto the floor of my aircraft and pretty much anywhere in the VC with my TIR4 with no problems.

[computerflyer 6]

On the issue of realism, how realistic is it to be reading a novel, being very immersed in an exciting scene, meanwhile staring at a piece of paper and turning pages?  That's why I never read books, totally unrealistic.

One problem with TrackIR is that you are moving your head closer or further from the screen, turning your head side to side while staring at the screen...looks very, very odd - don't do this with other people in the room.

[brucewtb 247]

EZDOK plus the hat switch for me.  Persevered with TrackIR over a number of years but it continued to give me headaches regrettably one of my biggest outlays for FSX but one that I could have done without.  

 

Bruceb

[Alan Rhodes 2]

Thanks Bruce you are the first person to agree with me on this topic, although there has been odd comments against it in the past. I haven't tried EZDOK is it worth getting?

[Glynn 405]

First person to agree with your opinion out of 64 posts, seems like most folks like TrackIr.

I personally could not fly without it, but then I have always been a VC flyer and so I feel comfortable in a fluid 3D environment, I Have never actually completed a flight with a 2D  panel in 2004 or Fsx

[MarkJHarris 128]

OK folks. Start saving. Track IR is a good thing, no question, but it's soon to become obsolete. Now, I'm currently testing FlyInside on my DK2. It's ok, but not good enough resolution to recommend.

 

However, next March, CV1 will be released with twin 4K resolution and built in headphones and mic. More importantly, the folks at FlyInside are working on integrating Leap Motion into the sim.

 

Look it up. It's more " I want this" than anything I've seem up to now. I have my mount and Leap Motion on the way to enable me to test the Alpha release as it is updated. 

 

No more worrying about monitors, eye movement or anything. You put it on, see hands as you move yours and should be able to map your controls and be able to operate most switches in VR.

 

Full VR inside a PDMG or fighter will keep make FSX leapfrog other sims unless they integrate quickly. Look it up and prepare to want it!

[Les Parson 99]

I've had TIR4 for years and tried it about three times and returned to HAT switch and custom VC views by aircraft (A2A, RealAir GA). I use 3 x 22" monitors for left front, center and right front views. I've heard some comment TIR isn't really recommended for 3-monitor setups while others on this thread stating they could not go on without TIR on their 3-monitor setups.  I've experienced the same kind of problems that 'sharky101' describes above; even with the clip. 

 

In all fairness, I may not have allotted enough time to get accustomed to the TIR environment. Any tips or advice is welcomed. 

[Dirk98 354]

I tired using it and it just feels too weird to me.  I don't like the sensation of having to turn my head but my eyes are always fixed straight ahead.   I went the other way... I just bought 3 24" wide screen and went into surround mode for true head turning action.   XD

 

Same here in the sense I also tired using it. Nowadays I use it only for VFR flying in propellers. Otherwise for jets I set maximum EZDOK views (is it around 20+?) and use HATs and buttons on my CH Fighterstick and PRO throttle to switch EZDOK views (the possibilities are infinite with CHM scripts). Feels much much better than with TIR.

 

Dirk. 

[gpbarth 12]

Ditto.

Double-ditto! One of the best, if not THE best, add-ons for flying.

[codechris 9]

OK folks. Start saving. Track IR is a good thing, no question, but it's soon to become obsolete. Now, I'm currently testing FlyInside on my DK2. It's ok, but not good enough resolution to recommend.

 

However, next March, CV1 will be released with twin 4K resolution and built in headphones and mic. More importantly, the folks at FlyInside are working on integrating Leap Motion into the sim.

 

Look it up. It's more " I want this" than anything I've seem up to now. I have my mount and Leap Motion on the way to enable me to test the Alpha release as it is updated. 

 

No more worrying about monitors, eye movement or anything. You put it on, see hands as you move yours and should be able to map your controls and be able to operate most switches in VR.

 

Full VR inside a PDMG or fighter will keep make FSX leapfrog other sims unless they integrate quickly. Look it up and prepare to want it!

 

A few things I want to address and ask here. The CV1 of Occulus comes with headset and mic, however, are they removable? I don't necessarily want to use the headphones attached since I'll pay a fair few quid for a decent pair, far better then the ones that come with it.

 

Second, the first LeapMotion had some terrible reviews. I never used it, but knew 2 people that bought it and didn't use after an hour of playing. I only hope the second version is better. The Register (one of the best IT news sites you can find) had a fairly good review of it, although stated it was a huge gimmick and not worth buying. But, did state that has no practice use at the time (2013) so that may all change when you can't physically see you're peripherals as with the Rift.

 

Occulus, in their presentation, also showed off their new controllers. It was slightly unfortunate that the man presenting them wasn't the best in the world at presenting (I admit, I'd also be terrible at presenting) but they didn't excite me in anyway. Maybe I'm not the target audience. I can't stand playing shooting games with a controller, it's awful. I'm a child of Keyboard-and-Mouse (to steal a popular video title). But, I'm trying to be subjective about it, and there just isn't anything there for me. That being said, not everything is for everyone.

 

I've watched videos from Froogle and Matt Davies and can see how TrackIR would be really useful. I've held off since I only fly the NGX right now and deam it nice to have, not a must have. But I want to try some props soon and GA and my primary reason for staying away from those is now I know TrackIR exists, I can't stand moving around with EZDok with my mouse. But, now I've seen videos of Elite: Dangerous and Asseto Corsa with the Occulus Rift, I am in awe. Even though you as a viewer can't experience what they say, having watched so many people use the Rift with Driving games, space, GTA 5, and everyone has the same gob smacked reaction tells me all I need to know. It looks fantastic. However, I don't think Elite would be as enjoyable without TrackIR. GTA is easy because you always have your hand on the mouse anyway to look around. But in Elite you've got a joystick, throttle and the buttons to push and then you'd need to view with your mouse. Unless I grow another arm or 2, I just wouldn't find that as enjoyable as having TrackIR

 

But, will FSX/P3D/XP whatever sim, look as amazing as, say, Elite: Dangerous in the Rift? I don't think it will be AS amazing as Elite, mainly down to Elite's graphics and being in space etc. The same with GTA, you're in a huge city, walking right up to people, kicking a cat in the face, riding a motorbike in the rain (that video is stunning) but in the plane you're far away from the ground (even if low), focus quite a bit on the dials and screens. For me, it will look great, but other games will look more amazing

[gpbarth 12]

OK folks. Start saving. Track IR is a good thing, no question, but it's soon to become obsolete. Now, I'm currently testing FlyInside on my DK2. It's ok, but not good enough resolution to recommend.

 

However, next March, CV1 will be released with twin 4K resolution and built in headphones and mic. More importantly, the folks at FlyInside are working on integrating Leap Motion into the sim.

 

Look it up. It's more " I want this" than anything I've seem up to now. I have my mount and Leap Motion on the way to enable me to test the Alpha release as it is updated. 

 

No more worrying about monitors, eye movement or anything. You put it on, see hands as you move yours and should be able to map your controls and be able to operate most switches in VR.

 

Full VR inside a PDMG or fighter will keep make FSX leapfrog other sims unless they integrate quickly. Look it up and prepare to want it!

Until there is some effective way to use the cockpit controls (knobs, buttons, switches), this won't be an ideal solution. It's very nice for looking around, but your vision is confined to the goggles - you might be able to "see" the panels in front of you, but you can't see the knobs, buttons and switches on your joystick or controller, or your keyboard.

 

Until you can "reach out" within that virtual reality and operate those panels, it's still in its infancy stage.

[codechris 9]

How often do you actually look at you're controls?

 

I never do. That being said, I don't have a hardware radio stack etc. In that case it would be a bit of a challenge. But, throttles joystick etc I can't see why you need to look.

 

But yes, this is a limitation of the Rift. There are ways around this though. If you really need to use you're keyboard, learn to know where you're keys are, or use something like VoiceAttack to program voice activated macros. They are working around the issue, not fixing it as such.

 

When you use the phrase "it's still in its infancy stage" Are you speaking about the Rift in general, or the Rift for use in flight simulators? The Rift is in it's infancy, it doesn't even have a consume product yes, and that will only be the first version. There is still lots of learn, and explore. But if you think that the Rift is in it's infancy because of the limitation you point out, I say you should watch videos of people playing games with it as many people can play many games perfectly fine without needing to see their peripherals.

 

But admittedly the Rift won't be good for everyone, or even every game

[gpbarth 12]

How often do you actually look at you're controls?

 

I never do. That being said, I don't have a hardware radio stack etc. In that case it would be a bit of a challenge. But, throttles joystick etc I can't see why you need to look.

 

I don't have a huge stack like some others, but have you seen the Saitek X-55? On the throttle quad alone there are 7 2-way toggle switches, 5 rotary knobs, a rocker switch, a slider, 5 buttons (2 on the rotarys), 2 4-way mini-hats, and a mouse "stick." On the "Stick" side, there are 4 buttons, 2 "triggers" and 3 hats. I'm quite used to looking at those controls whenever I do something.

 

But yes, this is a limitation of the Rift. There are ways around this though. If you really need to use you're keyboard, learn to know where you're keys are, or use something like VoiceAttack to program voice activated macros. They are working around the issue, not fixing it as such.

 

IF - you could see your mouse cursor within Rift (Can you? I don't know), at least you could put the cursor on the control you wanted, and control it with the mouse. That much everyone is fairly good at. With TrackIR, I can "look closely" at a control, put my cursor on it and push, pull, turn, click ON/OFF, etc. But it seems to me that with Rift, all you see is the cockpit in general and outside. With driving games, you don't have to look at the shift, clutch, brake, accelerator and steering...with flight sims, that cockpit is a busy place.

 

When you use the phrase "it's still in its infancy stage" Are you speaking about the Rift in general, or the Rift for use in flight simulators? The Rift is in it's infancy, it doesn't even have a consume product yes, and that will only be the first version. There is still lots of learn, and explore. But if you think that the Rift is in it's infancy because of the limitation you point out, I say you should watch videos of people playing games with it as many people can play many games perfectly fine without needing to see their peripherals.

 

"Infancy" in both regards. As you said, Oculus Rift isn't even on the market yet. MAYBE next year. I saw Rift when it was first conceived, and my very first remark was, "Wow! If this could be ported over to FSX...!" I love TrackIR, and VR is the next iteration. And it's coming, there's no doubt about that.  I think VR is the future of gaming, but I don't think that an affordable system for us simmers is on the table right now. I don't know if you have seen another thread up here on AvSim about one gentleman's 737NGX full flight deck build, but he is spending 6 figures to put this thing in his garage. I don't know how much VR will be selling for as it starts to penetrate the market, and I'm sure that some will spend thousands of $$ to make it happen. But for the foreseeable future, I don't think we're going to see something along the lines of TrackIR in the hands of a lot of flight simmers. A few, maybe, even some who build their own systems - from what I understand, most of the technology is open-source, but for me at least, if it costs over $200, I have to think about it very much.

 

 

[codechris 9]

I understand the points you've made. I don't have any hardware and a simple stick/throttle so for me it's a non-issue. However, I'm looking to buy the X-55 and maybe then I'd think different.

 

My understanding is that you can see the mouse cursor, but with the DK-2 I know that using menus can be difficult. I don't know if that particular problem would be better with the release version, which is 2016, I think May...?

 

The Rift does have very high requirements though. I think they said minimum nVidia 970..something around there. I have a GTX780 and runs everything without fault at high graphics. In fact I don't have any game that's not on highest settings other then FSX (because of the fact it's more a CPU program). So already, without the cost of the Rift which is going to be a fair amount, many people won't even have the graphics card for it. At this stage, it will definitely be for those with a good amount of expendable cash only.

 

I do know, though, that a fair few people here only flight sim and maybe it will be too much to pay for, especially given the limitations it has, as you point out. For those of us that play a wide range of games it may be easier to justify..

 

That being said, I've seen people play games such as Mirrors Edge in the Rift and while it sounds like a great idea, but apparently it's quite hard to play and difficult on your brain. In those cases TrackIR may be more suited. At this stage I'd have no problem with buying the TrackIR, it would make GA flying much more enjoyable and more games have TrackIR support. It's maybe the safer of the two to purchase at this point in time