Some questions about the HP850xp

[X24 15]

@WarpD -

 

...I love the visual appearance of the aircraft...

 

Me too. And I enjoy the way it handles.

 

I'm treating this as a new type, and as with any new airframe, you have to learn its own unique array of features, functions and foibles. This is a 1960's design which in my very subjective and hopefully humble opinion is one of the nicest looking aeroplanes I have ever seen (yeah, I'm 55, do the math...). Its more recent incarnations have winglets and new avionics, but like anything with complex automation, and especially an FMS, these are merely tools, wonderful sources of guidance and information storage and processing when they work, but tools nonetheless. Using an appropriate level of automation is a very important skill to develop.

 

Anyone who is disturbed by the Carenado Pro Line 21 should go to the PPrune Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA, etc. forum, search for "Collins Pro Line 21" and get a feel for how crews feel about and operate it in real life.

 

Manuals contain instructions that if followed, will hopefully produce a particular result. FMS + FGC + AFCS + AHRS + DCP + CDU + any other acronyms (still haven't figured out what the letters A C R O N Y M actually stand for...) you can think of create more and more possibilities for some small event that will produce an unexpected outcome. Each aircraft type and even tail number has its own behavioural idiosyncrasies that affect how the culture evolves within its pilot community. Things won't always go the way you plan, want or expect, so you do what you have to do to get the job done, as long as it is safe, and legal. I'm tempted to suggest that however unwittingly, Carenado may have presented us with a plane that presents similar challenges.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses for them, far from it. But, now that I "own" the Hawker 850XP, what next? What has it got, what does work, and how do I use it?

 

I felt a littled ripped off after buying this product at first, but not now. I don't regret it at all; I like flying it, and Carenado deserve credit for what they do do well. I have been getting experience testing and flying with it around Greenland, Iceland, Norway etc in the winter. Great visual spectacle! I am learning about its capabilities, and its limitations, and how to use it to achieve the intended task. A culture is already beginning to emerge, I would say.

 

I'm also using this as a vehicle (no pun intended) to delve into the mysteries of xml. All is not lost. I just hope that the Carenado devs recognise the potential that this little plane has.

[X24 15]

The Collins FMS-6000 Pilot's Guide CD would be good. Found the book on eBay.

[X24 15]

 

 

It won't help you with Carenado's Pro Line 21, not even close

 

The quote problem is an issue with IE11. Just looking for reference material for mods. FMS-6000 guide would be good too.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

The quote problem is an issue with IE11. Just looking for reference material for mods. FMS-6000 guide would be good too.

 

Chris if when you get a chance can you tell me your take off sequence - meaning what buttons are you engaging to follow an fms flight plan - pfd setup especially - when I hit ap - alt - nav (I have PFD in FMS mode) it does not follow plan justs goes straight or around in circles have no idea what this is doing this driving me nuts - thanks

[X24 15]

I have discovered that the reason it goes around in circles is it is trying to intercept track at the first waypoint, which is the reference point at the aerodrome of departure. I haven't explored the finer details but I believe the criteria allowing NAV capture include being within a certain angle of the track among others. If I am having problems, I use heading to get to a point where NAV will capture.

 

My setup looks like this:

 

I have already loaded the FMS flight plan.

 

Initially, at the top of the PFD, it says ROLL in green, with a green arrow pointing left.

 

Using the NAV/BRG button, make sure that the FMS is the selected nav source. You have to do this. Selecting anything from the PRE button doesn't actually select it as a nav source. Sounds like you might already have that covered. However, I do think that as well as having FMS as the nav source, it also has to be displayed above and to the left of the HSI.

 

Set the altitude using the altitude selector knob, which arms ALTS which is then displayed in white on the lower line of the AFCS message field at the top of the PFD.

 

Click the center of the altitude knob to disengage ALTS, which will disappear. It does not say so, but it is now in altitude hold mode. Push the ALT button once to disengage it. Even though it still doesn't display it, it is now in PTCH (pitch) mode. Place the mouse pointer over the thumbwheel and rotate the thumbwheel towards you to raise the flight director bars to 12 degrees nose up. Make sure the heading bug is centered, and press HDG. This is an accepted method for preflight preparation in the real aircraft. You should see HDG _<- PTCH at the top of the PFD. The FD bars should be at 12 degrees up, wings level. If you do this on the ramp, then once lined up on the runway, make sure the heading bug is centered again, unless of course you have a runway end turn like at YBCS in which case set the departure heading.

 

It is also possible to use ALTS mode. Because it is using V/S, which defaults to 500 fpm, it has been recommended elsewhere to pre-set this to around 1700 fpm. The FD bars still only show about 5 degrees nose up but this will change after you get airborne. My preference is the heading and pitch option because it doesn't have to hunt around to find a pitch attitude after take off to maintain the vertical speed. I don't arm NAV, yet...

 

I have tool tips turned on, I find it helps to know if a mode is engaged or not when I hover the mouse pointer over a button.

 

Tip:- if it starts playing up, disengage a mode or modes which will place the autopilot and flight director into the applicable basic mode(s).

[X24 15]

Continued.
..

 

Take off. At Vr, rotate to 12 degrees, positive climb, gear up, and follow the flight director which is commanding a wings level 12 deg climb. For the purpose of this exercise, once in a stable climb, engage the autopilot. Hitting "Z" works fine.

 

At this attitude, and with take off thrust set, the aircraft will accelerate smoothly. At Vfr, retract the flaps if you used them.

 

For simplicity's sake, continue to accelerate to 250 kts, then press the FLC button and make sure it is annunciated on the AFCS message area on the top of the PFD. It will capture the current airspeed, which you can then fine tune with the airspeed knob.

 

Whilst performing the ablove, using the heading bug, set up a heading that will intercept track. Some departures are runway aligned, in which case NAV might engage without any problems. If the aircraft starts to veer off course, fly in circles etc, change back to heading mode.

 

This is a start - hope it helps, more to come.

[WarpD 824]

The quote problem is an issue with IE11. Just looking for reference material for mods. FMS-6000 guide would be good too.

It's not an FMS-6000 so that wouldn't be quite correct. It's an FMS-3000. I have the trainer for it sitting right here on my desktop.

[jjwesten 0]

Thanks Christopher, your little tutorial did it for me. Just made my first good flight, well allmost, the glideslope didn't work but I call it progress!

 

Question, how do I select radio 1 or 2? And where can I set the transponder on? (the standby and charlie mode).

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Thanks Chris - go over all of this tonight - much appreciated

[ryanbatc 12,836]

For some reason quote function does not work$&*$@!!!. I cannot paste anything or share anything in my posts, other than what I type.

 

@Glynn - Sorry, I should have explained that I am looking for specific information about how the real Pro Line 21 is supposed to look and work. There are a number of us slowly concocting modifications to the various XML files and I am looking for accurate reference material.

Send me a PM

[jjmp 2]

Check all the time

 

this one is quite helpful...

 

 

 

For some reason quote function does not work$&*$@!!!. I cannot paste anything or share anything in my posts, other than what I type.

 

Are you using default windows internet explorer?, I had this problem with the explorer, then I use chrome when I'm on the forum and problem fixed!, I can quote, selective quote, copy-paste with no probs!, regards...

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

this one is quite helpful...

 

Seen this one - it is the best video out there but hard to follow exactly what they are doing - thanks

[19dcavscout 39]

I have quite a bit of experience with the Pro-Line 21 with FMS 3000 cockpit, however its in a C-12V (Or a King Air).  A lot of the stuff should be the same, just minor aircraft specifics. I will dig around and see what manuals and such I have for it if  you want.