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el_kab0ng

Using ALTS in the Hawker

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I'm not sure if this is the right procedure, but this is how I manage my altitudes. It may or may not help you, but it works for me.

 

1. When on the ground and receiving initial altitude by ATC, I hit the ALTS button.

2. I then set the altitude using the inner wheel (usually 4-6,000 feet depending on ATC instructions)

3. I then rotate the VS wheel to ~3000fpm (the FD will rise)

 

That's pretty much where I leave it. On take off, engaging the AP will automagically follow the proper VS and all I need to do is manage N1%/Speed based on the performance tables.

 

Is this how you guys do it since the FLC is still doinked?

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Yeah that's how I have to do it too.

 

Not the way it works in the real one though.

 

In flight you should be able to select an ALT, then press VS or FLC and it should climb at that FPM or pitch and ALTS should be armed always.  ALTS should always work but it doesn't in this version for some reason.  The acft shouldn't do anything until you press a vertical mode.  You should be able to change ALT knob all day and the AP won't do a thing until you select vertical mode.

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Ryan is absolutely correct. If you read the RW manual, at least you will know what this aircraft will NOT do.

 

Here's my two bob's worth, subject to change without notice.

 

I have tool tips turned on so I can inspect the state of a particular button by hovering the mouse pointer over it.

 

I set altitude, press the centre of the ALT knob to cancel ALTS, & press the ALT button to cancel ALT hold.

 

I set attitude 12 degrees. I take off in pitch mode, 12 degrees is good attitude - I can adjust it up and down as I like. I accelerate, clean up, and use pitch or VS or FLC or VNAV. I've been experimenting, but try to use FLC.

 

I don't use VNAV for climbs unless there's exactly the right info in the flight plan, and I have checked it thoroughly. It flies a geometric profile. If it's in the groove, it seems to be ok, and you can control speed with thrust. In VALTV it completely ignores whatever you're cleared to and flies the heights on the flight plan. If you're already above the altitude entered for the next waypoint when you engage VNAV, in all likelihood, it may start descending quite rapidly - just doing what it's asked! It's quite nice watching it behave properly, but I've had my hands full a few times when it does the unexpected.

 

VNAV is good on descent. I just work backwards from the IAF and work out some 3 x heights to put in at each waypoint. VALTV will take you all the way down, VALTS will stop at the selected altitude. The descent distances in the performance notes are reasonably close for working out a TOD. I just use 3 x. Upon first selection of the lower altitude, it goes to ALTS, and defaults to 500fpm. Pushing VNAV gives VALTV, twiddling the altitude selector knob +/- 100 feet will change it to VALTS.

 

I have found that several modes can be "active" at once, but won't tell you this on the PFD. If I'm in FLC, approaching an intermediate altitude, get cleared to a higher level and set the new altitude, it still says FLC on the PFD, but ALTS is now armed in the background. Now if I move the VS thumbwheel, the VS commands will override the FLC speed commands. It remembers which one was operated last... sometimes.

 

To be certain, if I have changed the selected altitude, and I'm using FLC (which I do for long climbs), after setting the new altitude, I cycle the FLC button off then on again. Near TOC, once the alerter goes off, I deselect FLC, and now ALT is annunciated on the PFD, and with one quick flick of the "hundreds" knob - just a hundred feet and back e.g. FL410 - FL409 and back to FL410 - it re-arms ALTS, and it will capture the altitude.

 

The trick is obviously knowing which mode you want, how to get it, and making sure you do in fact have it. And I have to

remember to de-select modes I'm not using. I just did a VNAV descent, doing a bit of experimenting, and got high, so I closed the thrust levers selected heading, and FLC 280kts. Because I forgot to turn VNAV off, it tried to level at the next VNAV altitude constraint even though I wasn't on track, or even in NAV. So, very important to turn things off when you've finished. Turn it off, then back on again if you want it to be "on top", in other words - reset - this has been mentioned by others.

 

Practice, practice, and more practice. This is nice to practice in too, I've been exploring NFTX Norway, very nice.


Christopher Allan

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I wonder how much of this turn on / turn off requirement is due to the design of the avionics and how much is due to the poor implementation in this addon..

 

I suspect it is largely the latter.

 

In my mods, I have tried to remove as much of this ambiguity as possible, but without a RW pilot providing input, it is hard to argue against Carenado who claim (when challenged) that their pilot told them that this was the correct implementation..

 

I look forward to actual Hawker pilots providing input.

 

Computer code can be changed, if we know what the desired behavior is..


... reading the Proline documentation, pushing the ALTS knob should have no impact on autopilot operation, other than to cancel a blinking ALTS alert.

 

As Ryan points out above, you should be able to select a target altitude by turning the ALTS knob, and then select a vertical mode  (Pitch - which is the default, or VS, or FLC).  ALTS is enabled automatically in each of these modes!


Bert

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What is supposed to happen in the real thing is that if for instance an ILS approach is linked into the flight plan, there is a facility called NAV to NAV which changes from the FMS flight plan track to the ILS automatically. However, many Hawker pilots report that this is not reliable, and so they perform the transfer manually.

 

In the Dash 8, often the aircraft would fly through the localiser a little and turn back on. Knowing this, we would pre-empt things by turning on early using heading mode. I would hope an add-on designer would not use this (for instance) as a reason not to program LOC capture because "their pilot told them this was the correct implementation." I do get where I think they are coming from - there is definitely a culture among the few Hawker pilots I know of doing things a certain way to get the job done, and this may differ slightly from the SOP that is prescribed in the pilot's guide. That's the same for any aircraft.


I have just done another couple of flights using 1.2  - my APU works now, FLC will capture altitudes as long as ALTS is hiding in the background.

 

In nav mode with FMS displayed on the PFD, pressing heading causes the lateral mode to go blank, then when I push the preset button to select VOR 1 which I had already set up, heading was annunciated. The PFD should always annunciate the active mode. Disengaging the active mode used to result in ROLL being displayed which is the basic mode. Now, nothing.  

 

Once APPR LOC1 is displayed, GS will not annunciate at all until the glideslope is alive.

 

Changing the altitude selection once the approach is armed or captured WILL compromise the approach.


Christopher Allan

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Absolutely refuses to arm approach this time. No amount of button-pushing, engaging or disengaging modes has had any effect. There are valid LOC and GS scales, but all I can get is LOC 1 and ALT.

 

I'm uninstalling it.


Christopher Allan

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Absolutely refuses to arm approach this time. No amount of button-pushing, engaging or disengaging modes has had any effect. There are valid LOC and GS scales, but all I can get is LOC 1 and ALT.

 

I'm uninstalling it.

 

Seems like its hit or miss Chris - need more clarification - no fun flying a bit and not feeling comfy on that landing procedure 


Rich Sennett

               

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Yeah that's how I have to do it too.

 

Not the way it works in the real one though.

 

In flight you should be able to select an ALT, then press VS or FLC and it should climb at that FPM or pitch and ALTS should be armed always.  ALTS should always work but it doesn't in this version for some reason.  The acft shouldn't do anything until you press a vertical mode.  You should be able to change ALT knob all day and the AP won't do a thing until you select vertical mode.

 

 

If you have my GTN mods installed, you can actually achieve this behavior..

 

I just tested it, and it seems to work..

 

Open up the two Autopilot_GTN files with Notepad and search for "ALTSEL"

 

In this ALTSEL macro section, make two changes

 

1000 --> 490

 

1000 --> 0

<Macro id="ALTSEL" Name="ALTSEL">
        <MacroValue>
	  (L:AUTOPILOT MASTER,BOOL)
			if{
			
					(L:CUSTOM_AP_ALT_VAR_SET_ENGLISH, feet) (>K:AP_ALT_VAR_SET_ENGLISH) 
					1 (>L:GAUGE_ALT_ALERT_DENTRO, number)
					(A:Autopilot Heading Lock,bool) (>L:HDG,bool)
					(A:Autopilot Nav1 Lock,bool) (>L:NAV,bool)
					
					(A:AUTOPILOT VERTICAL HOLD VAR, feet per minute) abs 490 >
					if{
						(A:AUTOPILOT VERTICAL HOLD VAR, feet per minute) abs (>L:TEMP_VERTICAL_HOLD_VAR, feet per minute)
					}
					els{
						0 (>L:TEMP_VERTICAL_HOLD_VAR, feet per minute)
					}

Bert

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That Bert guy has all the answers :)

 

Thanks Rich!  Made my day..   :rolleyes:

 

BTW, in the above, you only need to change one autopilot file, the VC one.

 

For anyone with the default Hawker who would like to change the autopilot behavior, so that it does not immediately initiate a climb or descent when changing the target altitude, try this:

 

1. Make a subfolder to the panel folder and call it  CarProline21

 

2. Unpack the contents of the CarProline21.cab file (found in the FSX Gauges folder) into this folder

   (leave the cab file as you found it..)

 

3. In this new folder, look for autopilot_bezelVC.xml

 

4. Open this file with Notepad

 

5. Search for ALTSEL

 

6. In the ALTSEL Macro section, change one instance of "500" to "0"

 

500 (>L:TEMP_VERTICAL_HOLD_VAR, feet per minute)

 

change to

 

0 (>L:TEMP_VERTICAL_HOLD_VAR, feet per minute)

 

7. Save the file and go fly.

 

If you do not like the change, delete your newly created CarProline21 folder from the panel folder.


Bert

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Guest Mik75

Thanks Rich! Made my day.. :rolleyes:

 

BTW, in the above, you only need to change one autopilot file, the VC one.

 

For anyone with the default Hawker who would like to change the autopilot behavior, so that it does not immediately initiate a climb or descent when changing the target altitude, try this:

 

1. Make a subfolder to the panel folder and call it CarProline21

 

2. Unpack the contents of the CarProline21.cab file (found in the FSX Gauges folder) into this folder

(leave the cab file as you found it..)

 

3. In this new folder, look for autopilot_bezelVC.xml

 

4. Open this file with Notepad

 

5. Search for ALTSEL

 

6. In the ALTSEL Macro section, change one instance of "500" to "0"

 

500 (>L:TEMP_VERTICAL_HOLD_VAR, feet per minute)

 

change to

 

0 (>L:TEMP_VERTICAL_HOLD_VAR, feet per minute)

 

7. Save the file and go fly.

 

If you do not like the change, delete your newly created CarProline21 folder from the panel folder.

I'll definitely give this a try! Thanks a lot for all your effort!

The Hawker looks so nice, and hand flies and sounds so good! And with your mods, it'll become an enjoyable aircraft to fly for sure!

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Thanks Rich!  Made my day..   :rolleyes:

 

Hi Buddy - great stuff but what will we press to initiate an altitude change as the only thing I have found to make changes is VS and as such what benefit would this tweak be - not sure - thank you much Bert


Rich Sennett

               

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According to the RW manual, you initiate an altitude change by:

 

1.  Dialing in the target altitude

 

then:

 

2.  Selecting a vertical mode, by

 

either  2.1.  Select pitch with the Pitch wheel

 

or  2.2.  Select VS and select vertical speed with the Pitch wheel

 

or  2.3.  Select FLC mode and adjust the throttles for vertical speed


Bert

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