How do pilots typically set NAV1 and NAV2 radios?

[Guest]

Don't fly for real (too expensive...) but that's my thoughts too.I will use the FS GPS from time to time but more often than not it's little more than a moving map display to back up my navigation or provide me with VOR and NDB frequencies for stations I need to tune.

[LAdamson 240]

>Really, though, don't all you blokes get bored flying>everywhere by GPS, moving map, whatever? To me there's>nothing more interesting than flying in limited viz by using>VOR and NDB equipment to navigate. Then when you see the>runway lights materialize out of the gloom at decision height,>you know that YOU have done it, not the computer. Satisfaction>guaranteed.I'm a GPS fan from way back, at least 12 years or so. I bought aviation moving map GPS's when they were first released. At the time, the good moving maps were all hand-helds, as certified panel mounts were far behind in terms of what the non-certified hand-held could do.My interest in GPS is due to living in a mountainous area where supposeably the MEA's begin at 14,000' msl & clouds mean icing! :DWe actually have a lot of flight into terrain problems out here. Missed approaches with a loss of situational awareness, getting lost in a sudden white out, or perhaps hitting a mountain in the darkness.Out here, we fly down valleys at 3-4000' with rising mountains on both sides at 12000'+. I'm the kind of pilot, that say's gee whiz, since commercial airliners, military aircraft, and many GA planes are still flying a good airplane into rising terrain, or just letting it settle while trying to get back on course..................... a good moving map display is MORE than beneficial for an instant shot of regained situational awareness. I also live in a state that's covered by some of the most diverse & beautiful scenery in the world. I wouldn't trade it for flying in the "muck" anyday! I also build kitbuilt aircraft, and install the GPS, the auto-pilots, and the whole panel too. It's kind of fun to see things all wired together, adjusted and working.Since mountain topography is my main interest in real life flight, it is with simming too. I'd rather try a new mesh set, than see the runway lights appear out of the gloom, but I do, do the instrument approach, once and a while.But seriously, my thoughts regarding advanced GPS have much to do with increased safety. I've kept track of flight into terrain accidents for many years, and there are too many. We average three a year around here. The moving map GPS is a valuable tool, that can really save life. I'm totally thrilled, that so many new aircraft are being fitted with glass panels, including many for instruction. L.Adamson

[brucek 38]

Flying with VOR and DME gauges is something that one has to be able to do in IFR, no doubts about that. But if you use FS as a trainer for the real IFR, then using GPS products such as the RXP Garmins is excellent. One of the toughest things to do in single-pilot IFR is to manage the GPS- a nd having one and using it does significantly open up options, including approaches that can only be flown with a GPS.I read recently that New Zealand (my country of birth :) ) is introducing some form of stage checks that will be required for IFR pilots to fly aircraft with different GPS units.Bruce.

[Guest kickin_chicken]

I fly almost always using the GPS once airborn. I still dial in NAV1 to the next VOR and NAV2 to the VOR after that, and swtich bewteen them as I progress along my route.

[Guest av84fun]

Roger that...and the vast majority of gps units in the GA fleet are not certified installations, so you need to VORs for IFR and best know how to use them.Regards,Jim

[Guest av84fun]

<>With all due respect for the departed, the only thing I can think of in aviation dumber that flying an airplane into the side of a mountain is running out of gas.Most of the Flight Into Rising Terrain accidents involve continuing VFR flight into IFR conditions. I'm sorry but there are VERY few, if any, reasons for such accidents other than some combination of arrogance, overconfidence and just plain stupidity.A Sectional, a working altimiter and/or a 180 degree turn are all we need. The rest is boys with toys...which is FINE...but it is what it is.(-:Jim

[brucek 38]

Hi Jim,"With all due respect for the departed, the only thing I can think of in aviation dumber that flying an airplane into the side of a mountain is running out of gas."I would agree. But it happens a lot. I live on the other side of the Rockies from Larry, but we both live in mountainous terrain. So I've seen what he has. Density altitude is one that gets people- they figure their service celing is 14,000', and take on a mountain pass at 13,000' on a hot summers day, and wonder why the aircraft doesn't make it. Then there's the mountain flying, the downdrafts and the dynamics of flying in these mountains. Many people have never done this, and yet- they keep coming! We also have several accidents annually too, I would guess on average. And as far as running out of gas- several years ago a plane went down with empty tanks, bound for somewhere north-west of here, and coming from somewhere south east of here. Flew over an incredible number of airports right below him that had fuel available, even in the last hour of flight, when the calculations would have told him that he was close on fuel (had he done them).Then there's the guy that took off here with the control lock still fitted- wondered why the aircraft would respond- lots of pre-flight activity there!Yes, people are stupid- ..... :)Bruce.

[LAdamson 240]

>With all due respect for the departed, the only thing I can>think of in aviation dumber that flying an airplane into the>side of a mountain is running out of gas.>>Most of the Flight Into Rising Terrain accidents involve>continuing VFR flight into IFR conditions. I'm sorry but there>are VERY few, if any, reasons for such accidents other than>some combination of arrogance, overconfidence and just plain>stupidity.>>A Sectional, a working altimiter and/or a 180 degree turn are>all we need. The rest is boys with toys...which is FINE...but>it is what it is.>Sure, whatever......The Ron Brown 737, American 757 in Columbia, the C-130 in Jackson Hole Wyoming, the DC-8 within sight of my home.....Landings by commercial airliners at the wrong airports, 747's missing terrain by a few hundred feet, the list goes on & on....Many, many cases of flight into terrain while on an IMC approach or missed approach.....I need to leave. I don't have the time to list hundreds of accidents, and thousands of lost lives, where "macho men", could have only wished for one of these new so called "boys toys" when the chips were down, and only a few seconds to go. High time, low time, it doesn't matter. They're all dead.L.Adamson

[LAdamson 240]

>>Yes, people are stupid- ..... :)>We do have the stupid ones alright...Two years ago, in a case of get home itis, a pilot took off from the airport next door, headed to Phoenix, Arizona with very low ceilings and a plan to scud run along the freeway for clear sky's about 50 miles away. As the freeway made an offset turn, he followed the wrong road east into a deadend canyon with shear walls. Three 360's before the Bonanza hit the side.L.Adamson

[LAdamson 240]

>>A Sectional, a working altimiter and/or a 180 degree turn are>all we need. The rest is boys with toys...which is FINE...but>it is what it is.>This STATEMENT is making me pull my hair out!L.Adamson --- going back to search lights spread across the country for night time, semi IFRedit: Ever read the article titled "A Case for a Garmin"?Two pilots flying a single engine aircraft over the Sierra Nevada's, that suffered a total engine failure,on the down slope side towards lower valley's, but it put them in and out of the soup. ATC is providing them headings as best as possible, but they hit a rising ridge. Turns out the Garmin 296 with terrain features would have saved the day, and hence, the name for the article. What good, would a sectional and 180 degree turn---- do here?????I have lot's of real case stories, for another time...

[LAdamson 240]

As I've stated earlier, I'm intensly pro- moving map GPS, as with the newer types that provide color renditions of terrain, as well as the airport and runway in relation to the terrain. The following is a NTSB report from last week. At this point, I can only speculate. But I'm very aware of flight into terrain accidents, while in IMC on instrument approaches, or flying a missed approach. Just look at Aspen, Colorado as an example. A good moving map display can do, within less than a second, what a sectional chart, VOR's, and NDB's can never do. It can simply get you back on track, while avoiding possible high terrain -------- with one quick glance. They say that a "picture" is worth a thousand words. In cases like these, when an aircraft moves forward at the rate they do, a "picture" can shave the few precious seconds sometimes required in a life & death situation. When the "confused" mind only has a few seconds to determine an aircrafts position, what would YOU rather have available?If I hear..............one more time, that moving map GPS's are "toys", or not as "fun", or boring.............I'll simply be amazed, that one can't see the future of a tool, that can add an astonishing amount of situational awareness at the highest time of need!L.AdamsonNTSB Identification: SEA06FA02214 CFR Part 91: General AviationAccident occurred Tuesday, November 29, 2005 in Belgrade, MTAircraft: Cessna 425, registration: N701QRInjuries: 1 Fatal.This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.On November 29, 2005, about 1742 mountain standard time, a Cessna 425 Conquest, N701QR was destroyed after colliding with terrain approximately 2.8 nautical miles northeast of the Gallatin Field Airport (BZN), Bozeman, Montana. The airplane is registered to Tech II, Inc, of Springfield Ohio, and was being operated by the pilot as an instrument flight rules (IFR) personal cross-country flight under the provisions of Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the accident occurred. The private pilot, the sole occupant of the airplane, was fatally injured. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight that originated in Algona, Iowa, approximately 3 hours and 47 minutes prior to the accident.Preliminary air traffic control (ATC) communications transcripts of the accident flight showed the pilot was cleared, by Salt Lake City Center, for the ILS (instrument landing system) Runway 21 approach at 1738:21. Shortly after acknowledging the clearance, ATC radio communications with the pilot was lost.Salt Lake City Center issued an Alert Notice (ALNOT) for the missing aircraft on the evening of November 29. On the morning of November 30, the wreckage was located in a field about 2.8 NM northeast of the airport.

[mgh 89]

On the SEAFORD SID from EGKK, the joining point to SEA R313 is defined by a distance from SEA and R100 from the the MID VOR.

[Manny 1,293]

IF anyone here is interested in learning serious IFR flying... with VOR, ADF etc... I would suggest this book.A Skyroamers Publication "Instrument Flight Training Manual" by Ralph Butcher.This is not the million and 1 books out there explaning IFR procedures like Jeppessen or Rod Mochardo or Cessna or Kings school. For that.. I suggest you download the free version from the FAA. they have an wonderful IFR procedure book in PDF. whats so special about ralph Butcher? Well.. don't you wish..when you start your IFR lesson and IFR instructor starts the preflight brief and then he/she is talking to you in the plane and then he/she talks to you post flight briefing....that someone is taking down notes. Well..this book is basically that. Heuristics. Easy to remember thumbrules that you can use...no matter if you are flying an ADF or a VOR procedure... you are consistent in your thought process and simplifcation.like this eg.For every heading..what is the reciprocal? what is the reciprocal for 234? just deduct 2 from the first number (0), add 2 to the second number (5) and keep the third number (4) = 054.what is the reciprocal of 054? can't deduct 2...so add 2 to the first and do the opposite (subtract 2 from the second) and keep the third number.Simple things like that are some asides you get... that make complex problems so simple.This book is about the art of flying IFR. I love it. I have tonnes of IFR books..this is unique for real IFR flying. Manny

[JMR 2]

Thanks for that, Manny, that's just the kind of IFR book I'm looking for. edit: holy smokes Amazon has a link for it for $100 :( Luckily it looks like it can be obtained from Skyroamers Publication directly for $35.00.

[brucek 38]

Hi Manny,If I correctly recall who Ralph Butcher is, he's a retired UAL B744 captain who is active in flight instruction and writes articles in the AOPA Flight Training magazine. I really enjoy those artcles every month, and they certainly show his years of experience behind a yoke in the left seat.Bruce.