Only FSX AA/AF Settings Work in DX10 Preview!

[SteveFx 258]

There are two different things going on what the application (FSX) tells the GPU to do and what the GPU then does.

 

To simplify it a little FSX via the D3D api v9 or v10 tells the GPU

 

i) Whether to use antialiasing or not

 

ii) The number of samples 2x 4x 8x

 

 

 

Those are the "application settings" - that aside FSX does nothing different when drawing the scene. All antialising occurs purely in the GPU.

 

The driver controlprogram NVI/CCC can provide some input to what the GPU then actually does. There are two main areas of interest

 

a) Overriding the application settings by turning AA on when the application didnt request it, and/or changing the number of samples

 

B) changing the AA algorithm that runs in the GPU there are usually 3 variants MultiSample(default) SuperSample and an intermediate mode which uses a combination so it uses sample sample for transparent textures and the cheaper multisample for other things.

 

The main benefit of super sampling is that trees stop shimmering and as has been pointed out in other threads downsampling of textures in cockpits improves.

 

The rules for DX10 in CCC and NVI are

 

1) You cannot override the application settings (samples or on/off) - this is a DX10 limitation unrelated to FSX

 

2) You can change the algorithm with AMD and from several previous accounts with NVI with at least some cards.

 

The consequences of this are

 

a) the rotating airplane view is never antialised in DX10

 

B) the only thing that you can alter in NVI/CCC is the SuperSampling option.

 

However you can change the number of samples for DX10 in fsx.cfg with the MultiSamplesPerPixel setting and so increase to 8x.

[RWFeldman 159]

MultiSamplesPerPixel setting and so increase to 8x.

Now, thats something! I do see a change in IQ quality using FSX AA, least with my specs. Thank you. Now to get rid of the tearing and try to see theses big increases in performance that I have yet to see. Staying with DX9 as I get just as good, if not better performance and quality with less other issues but its kind of entertaining experimenting with DX10.

 

http://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/dx10-enhanced-aa/

[TechguyMaxC 516]

My DSX9 performance and qulity are

 

NickN is correct and I dont understand the not believing it?Untick/Shutoff AA in DX10 preview and post a screen shot with NI settings active.. That will prove if NI is injecting/enhancing AA in DX 10 PREVIEW. That simple. The increase peformance is the result of lower IQ not because of shader mods. DX10 HAS ALWAYS HAD BETTER PERFORMANCE at the expense of quality.

 

I don't run AA because I don't need it (3x 2560x1440 27" screens). When I switch from DX9 to DX10, I get a performance boost. DX10 is faster than DX9, and it's not because of lack of AA, though if one were to compare at lower levels of AA in DX10 than DX9 that would make an *additional* performance boost for DX10 in comparison.

[SteveFx 258]

Now, thats something! I do see a change in IQ quality using FSX AA, least with my specs. Thank you. Now to get rid of the tearing and try to see theses big increases in performance that I have yet to see. Staying with DX9 as I get just as good, if not better performance and quality with less other issues but its kind of entertaining experimenting with DX10.

 

http://stevesfsxanal...10-enhanced-aa/

 

It is interesting to experiment - its just a shame it was released in such an unfinished state.

 

For what its worth I think that Nick's comment was entirely reasonable at the time he wrote it.

 

I also don't claim that DX10 is faster than DX9 - it is in some circumstances but it depends on the in game slider settings and CPU vs GPU power.

 

Also just for clarification any gains or losses in performance come from the Aces code or the GPU/driver - my shader changes only remove annoyances like flashing runways there are no performance changes in there.

[Jim Young 2,356]

I also don't claim that DX10 is faster than DX9 - it is in some circumstances but it depends on the in game slider settings and CPU vs GPU power.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth Steve. I think the more people understand this the more enjoyment they will have while flying in DX10 Preview mode.

 

For what its worth I think that Nick's comment was entirely reasonable at the time he wrote it.

 

His comments were made fairly recently, in May 2012. The Aces Team also made this statement at the time DX10 was released (can't find the quotes - still looking but I will find them FWIW). What you did is fix DX10 Preview to where the Aces Team should have released it. For that, I'm very thankful for your contribution. Just, where in the heck were you when it was first released!!!??? LOL.

 

Best regards,

Jim

[copilot767 1]

I have GPU Titan .. Just bought 3 monitors..

In DX9 I have 30 FPS constant, With DX10 it drops after 10 sec to about 20 Fps..

 

With one monitor in DX9 and DX 10 constantly 30 fps..

 

Why is DX10 dropping with 10 fps when using 3 monitors, it only happens when enable anti- aliasing in FSX settings

 

Chris from Denmark

[Paul J 349]

Hey, Chris - Welcome to the DX10 club!

 

1). Go to the top of the forum and read the "DX10 How-To" guide. It was written at the time when Steve began to release the DX10 Patches, but much of what is there still applies to the config, when using the retail Fixer. Also I recommend reading any link you find in the various threads here.  

 

2). Open up your user profile -> settings-> and put your system specs in the, please, along with the overclock, if it applies.

 

3). Copy and paste your fsx.cfg, renaming the copy as "Chris_fsx.txt", and then, using the "More Reply Options" (bottom-right) - attach the txt file to your next reply, so that I/we can make an educated response and suggestion in answer to your frame-rate issue. 

 

Ok!  :biggrin: 

 

All the Best,

 

pj

[copilot767 1]

I found out what exactly that triggers my 10-15 fps drops, but hope there is a solution for that ?

 

Tested with that area : Default flight Friday harbour with exactly same settings in DX9 and DX10...

 

 

 

DX 9    In NVIDIA Inspector  8x sparse Grid Supersamling and  unticked ANTI ALIASING in FSX setting = FPS stable 30

 

DX 10 (using Steves dx10 program) 8x sparse Grid supersampling and ticked ANTIALIASINg in FSX setting = FPS about 15 fps

if setting to 2x sparse grid supersampling ( but looks terrible in  DX10 mode) = FPS stable 30

 

Only have the problem when using 3 monitors in DX10 mode..

No problem with 8x sparse grid supersampling in DX10 at a single monitor..

 

And no problem at all in DX9 with 8x sparse  grid supersampling 3 monitors

 

 

Hope someone can help me, because really like using 3 monitors, but im only have the monitors for a week left, still dont know

about a want to buy them from a friend..Because want to fly DX10 mode with great quality  in 8x sparse grid supersampling..

 

Chris from Denmark

[copilot767 1]

Here is my Inspector tool settings

[SteveW 1,792]

My take on it: I've always used DX10 since it appeared since the performance was key when I first had FSX, DX9 was too slow back then. I never got round to going back to DX9.

I just tested back to back and found in the same scene DX9 is slower than DX10.
 

Making sure I've got DX10 preview AA Checked Anisotropic set in FSX I went into the GPU control panel, set restore to let app decide fully and take a look in FSX, seems a bit grainy. When I press un-pause the jet settles on it’s suspension, I'm in the VC view and the trees shimmer badly as the view rocks slightly to a halt. Outside view and the wings of the 737 have obvious stepped edges as I look around the aircraft.

I then went into the GPU control panel and from defaults made changes to FXAA on, Antialiasing mode Enhance, AA setting 16xQ CSAA, Antialiasing Transparency 8x Supersample, Texture filtering quality to High Quality.

Restarted FSX and right away I could see the sky through and around the trees looks much more stable as the view rocks to a halt, but then the clincher, outside as I move around the wings have no obvious stepping in the edges.

 

It seems improvements have taken place by adjusting the control panel. These settings work in conjunction with FSX, leave your antialiasing mode in FSX to Anisotropic, AA checked.

 

Best regards

Steve

[Paul J 349]

Here is my Inspector tool settings

No Inspector and no fsx.cfg, Chris.. You will need to publish your Inspector on a photo-sharing site for easy access - like DropBox or MediaShare. The cfg needs to be attached to the post, per my original post.

 

pj

[copilot767 1]

 

 

 

Does it work now ?

To SteveW   - Thanks for your reply

 

Tried your way, DX10 looks okay, with good performance

But with 8x sparse grad super sampling it will be much better

 

And I find it really strange, that switching between DX9 and DX 10 with exactly same settings,  decreasing in DX10, where it have to be better than DX9 ?

Its the ingame FSX anti aiasing ticked in DX10 mode.. I think thats the problem ??

Edited October 20, 2013 by firehawk44
Image removed as it exceeded 400KB limit. See AVSIM Image Posting Rules. Yours was 1011KB.

[Paul J 349]

OK, Chris: a few issues.. Again - please read the pinned "DX10 How-To" Guide at the top of the forum, and - if you want to be successful at setting up DX10  - try using some "normal" settings to begin the "not-so-small" journey. Just because you have a 4.8-gig proc - don't expect that a Titan is going to make a perfect FSX for you. 5760 x 1080 x 32 is a lot of pixels to paint at 24x MSAA  and 8x SGSS. 

 

DX10 is a different graphics system, and as different as moving from FS9 to FSX, or FSX-SP1, to FSX-SP2.. and most, if not all of the graphics/display/load parameters in the fsx.cfg need some degree of movement from the DX9 cfg - not only that, because it's a different engine - those settings have to be tried and tested. It is the load-carrying ability while remaining smooth at lower frame rates which is the major change in DX10.

 

Anyway, let's have a look... These are my suggested values for you to make in order to get 30 fps with those monitors - at this time. This does not mean that they have to stay as I have suggested. The same with the suggested Inspector settings.

 

I have added Fiber_Frame_Time_Fraction to [Main]

 

Under [Display]

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120  //   40

UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30  //  0 and set Vsync in NI

 

Under [Weather]

CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=3  //  6

CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=7  //  8

 

Under [scenery]

IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=4   //    5

 

Under [Terrain]

WATER_EFFECTS=5  //  6

 

[TrafficManager]

AirlineDensity=20

GADensity=0

FreewayDensity=10

ShipsAndFerriesDensity=0   //  18

LeisureBoatsDensity=0  //   19

IFROnly=0

AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=1

 

and for the AA control, set by Fixer:-

 

MultiSampleQuality=24    Make this 8 by setting the DX10 AA setting in the Fixer to 8x CSAA, giving you this entry in the cfg:-

 

MultiSamplesPerPixel=4  <----  manually enter this figure into Inspector's Transparency SuperSampling. figure 

MultiSampleQuality=8

 

Then setup Inspector per this screenshot.

 

If you also follow the recommendations for the rest of the pc regarding OS Optimization, process killing, etc., you should be able to get your 30 frames - but not everywhere. You are still limited by the processor, and the rest of the pc. Even mine running at 5-gig, with a slew of other modifications, and a 780, three monitors at 3840 x 1024 x 32 can still be crippled by my expectations being too high (hint-hint). Fortunately that doesn't often happen now! 

 

All the best,

 

pj

 

 

 

[copilot767 1]

Thanks will try it out and come back

[spirit_66 2]

 

.......

Anyway, let's have a look... These are my suggested values for you to make in order to get 30 fps with those monitors - at this time. This does not mean that they have to stay as I have suggested. The same with the suggested Inspector settings.......

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

did you forget this or do you think it's no need?

 

[bufferPools]

BufferPools=0                    // 0 let the GPU do more work if it has at least 1 GB

 

Spirit